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PLEASE NOTE: The following transcript is a portion of the official hearing record of the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure. Additional material pertinent to this transcript may be found on the web site of the Committee at [http://www.house.gov/transportation]. Complete hearing records are available for review at the Committee offices and also may be purchased at the U.S. Government Printing Office.







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SEPTEMBER 11, 1996

Printed for the use of the

Committee on Transportation and Infrastucture


BUD SHUSTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman

WILLIAM F. CLINGER, Jr., Pennsylvania
THOMAS E. PETRI, Wisconsin
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HOWARD COBLE, North Carolina
JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee
WILLIAM H. ZELIFF, Jr., New Hampshire
BILL BAKER, California
JAY KIM, California
STEPHEN HORN, California
BOB FRANKS, New Jersey
PETER I. BLUTE, Massachusetts
JOHN L. MICA, Florida
ZACH WAMP, Tennessee
RANDY TATE, Washington
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RAY LaHOOD, Illinois

NICK J. RAHALL II, West Virginia
ROBERT A. BORSKI, Pennsylvania
ROBERT E. WISE, Jr., West Virginia
BOB CLEMENT, Tennessee
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of Columbia
PAT DANNER, Missouri
JAMES E. CLYBURN, South Carolina
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BOB FILNER, California
FRANK MASCARA, Pennsylvania
GENE TAYLOR, Mississippi

Subcommittee on Public Buildings and Economic Development

WAYNE T. GILCHREST, Maryland, Chairman

JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee
PETER I. BLUTE, Massachusetts
BUD SHUSTER, Pennsylvania
(Ex Officio)

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ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of Columbia
FRANK MASCARA, Pennsylvania
(Ex Officio)



  Davis, Hon. Thomas M., a Representative in Congress from Virginia

  Engen, Donald D., Director, National Air and Space Museum, Smithsonian Institution

  Martinez, Robert E., Secretary, Department of Transportation, Commonwealth of Virginia
  Moran, Hon. James P., a Representative in Congress from Virginia


  Moran, Hon. James P., of Virginia
  Oberstar, Hon. James L., of Minnesota
  Traficant, Hon. James A., Ohio
  Warner, Hon. John, of Virginia
  Wolf, Hon. Frank R., of Virginia

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  Engen, Donald D

  Martinez, Robert E


Engen, Donald D., Director, National Air and Space Museum, Smithsonian Institution:

Response to questions from Rep. Mascara
Proposal for the National Air and Space Museum Dulles Center
National Air and Space Museum Fact Sheet
The Smithsonian Institutuion Fact Sheet

Responses to post hearing questions

  Robb, Hon. Charles A., a U.S. Senator from Virginia, statement



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U.S. House of Representatives,

Subcommittee on Public Buildings and Economic Development,
Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure,
Washington, DC.

  The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 4:00 p.m. in room 2253, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Wayne Gilchrest (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

  Mr. GILCHREST. The Subcommittee on Public Buildings and Grounds and Economic Development will come to order.

  Today's hearing is on H.R. 3393, a bill authorizing the construction of a Smithsonian Institution National Air and Space Museum Dulles Center at Washington Dulles International Airport.

  The 103rd Congress passed public law 103—57, authorizing the Smithsonian Institution to plan and design an Air and Space Museum extension at the Washington Dulles International Airport and provided authorization for appropriations in the amount of $8 million for this purpose.

  H.R. 3393 before us today provides the requisite authority for the Smithsonian to complete this project by authorizing the construction of the facility; however, H.R. 3393 does not authorize any Federal funds for this purpose.

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  The new facility will permit airplanes, spacecraft, and aviation-related artifacts currently stored outdoors to be housed in structures built to museum standards. Also, it will provide improved facilities to house aviation artifacts which are currently stored at the Paul E. Garber facility in Suitland, Maryland.

  In addition, the extension will provide a restoration facility capable of handling the largest artifacts in the collection for public viewing.

  The facility will be located on a 185-acre site near the intersection of Route 28 and Route 50 in the Dulles Airport complex. The Smithsonian Institution intends to finance the construction of the new facility through borrowed funds and private donations.

  The Commonwealth of Virginia has pledged to provide infrastructure support, including the preparation of taxiways, parking, grading, and highway access valued at $40 million, a $3 million interest-free loan, a $6 million construction appropriation--if we keep going, fellows, we could add a little money to the First District of Maryland for a wetlands restoration----

  Mr. MORAN. As long as it's private money.

  Mr. GILCHREST. As long as it's private money there, Jim. Right.

  And authority for a $100 million bond issue.

  The Commonwealth has also pledged to work with local governments, the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, and others to develop rail passenger service between the West Falls Church metro station and the museum site.
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  We are very fortunate to have a number of our distinguished colleagues join us today to testify on this measure.

  Senator John Warner has asked unanimous consent that his words be submitted into the record. He's not here right now, I think because of our votes. He had another place to go. So, without objection, so ordered on that one, including Congressman Frank Wolf. We will submit his remarks for the record.

  Without objection, so ordered.

  [The prepared statements of Mr. Oberstar, Mr. Traficant, Mr. Warner, and Mr. Wolf follow:]

  [Insert here.]

  Mr. GILCHREST. Senator John Warner introduced a similar measure in the Senate, and Congressman Wolf introduced the bill in the House. We'll submit those statements for that purpose.

  I would like to welcome you to this hearing and I look forward to the testimony of our two esteemed, honorable colleagues, and I welcome both of you here today to give us your testimony.

  Before we get started, I would like to recognize the gentlelady from the District of Columbia, Ms. Eleanor Holmes Norton.
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  Ms. NORTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

  I'd like to welcome my two good friends from Virginia here on a bipartisan basis, and to note that there was considerable competition for this facility. I'm pleased that the facility will be built within the metropolitan area. It seems to me to be altogether appropriate. When people come to the Nation's capital, they come to see what is in the air, what is in not only that museum, but in other museums, and to have these artifacts not very far away it seems to me is consistent with the best way to display them and to make sure they are seen by the greatest number of Americans.

  Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Thank you, Ms. Norton.

  Mr. Mascara?

  Mr. MASCARA. I have no opening comments, but I do have a question for later on, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Thank you, Mr. Mascara.

  Not to proceed in any particular way, but the first person on the list is Mr. Davis. Thanks for coming, Tom.

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  Mr. DAVIS. Thank you very much. I'll try to be brief.

  Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, I appreciate this opportunity to testify in support of H.R. 3393, which would authorize construction of the Smithsonian Institution's Air and Space Museum extension at Washington Dulles International Airport.

  As I know the members of the subcommittee are aware, since 1983 the Smithsonian has been looking to build an air and space extension large enough to properly display the many aviation artifacts that the museum lacks room for in its current facility on the mall.

  As you may have heard, only 20 percent of the museum's collection is currently on display. Right now the Space Shuttle Enterprise, a B-17 Flying Fortress, an SR-71 Blackbird, and the ''Enola Gay,'' among others, are collecting dust in hangars at Dulles Airport because there is no room at the Air and Space Museum.

  There are a number of historically-important aircraft, such as a Lockheed Constellation, sitting outside, exposed to the weather, for lack of any space to store them indoors.

  H.R. 3393 authorizes the Board of Regents of the Smithsonian Institution to construct a museum extension at Dulles Airport that will allow these and many other aviation and space artifacts to be properly preserved and displayed.
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  This legislation makes it clear that no Federal funds will be appropriated to pay for any expense associated with construction of the facility. The Air and Space Museum has already begun the process of raising private funds for construction, and I understand that the new Air and Space Museum director, Donald Engen, who is here today, has set raising funds to build the extension a top priority.

  The Commonwealth of Virginia also stands firmly behind its commitment to bring this national educational facility to reality, as you will hear from our Commonwealth transportation secretary, Mr. Martinez.

  I'm going to urge the subcommittee to move this legislation as soon as possible. This bill is noncontroversial. It requires no expenditure of Federal funds. In fact, the bill explicitly states that no Federal funds will be used.

  The Senate has already passed identical legislation by voice vote.

  It has been 13 years since the Air and Space Museum extension was proposed. Let's not delay any further the expansion of what has been become the most visited museum in the world.

  Again, I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, and the subcommittee for giving me this opportunity to testify in support of the Air and Space Museum extension.

  I just also note, as you did, Congressman Wolf was here earlier and had to proceed, and Senator Warner was here earlier but, because of our voting schedule, couldn't be here. But I appreciate your putting their remarks in the record.
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  Mr. GILCHREST. Thank you, Mr. Moran--sorry, Mr. Davis.

  Mr. DAVIS. I've been called worse.


  Mr. MORAN. Thank you, Tom.

  Mr. DAVIS. Not much worse, but worse.


  Mr. MORAN. Every day people tell me what a good job I'm doing with the District of Columbia. Whatever is fair.


  Mr. MORAN. Let me get back on track here.

  We do want to thank you and your colleagues on the subcommittee, Mr. Chairman, for taking this up now. We know the schedule is very tight, but if we can--if the Congress can act to this here, we'll be able to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Wright Brothers' first historic flight on the opening of the National Air and Space Museum at Dulles Center on December 17, 2003. That's our goal. That's the objective. That's the schedule. But to meet it we really need to act now.
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  The Senate, as you know, has acted, and so if we could mark this up we will get right on track and not waste valuable time next year.

  It has been a lengthy process. This is not the first testimony that has been given on the Air and Space Museum concept at Dulles. It's probably taken as long as the Wright Brothers' first flight attempts to get up in the air. This is--at times it seemed like we were never going to get off the ground but I think we have the opportunity to now.

  Ever since the Air and Space Museum opened its doors on the 200th anniversary of our Nation, the Smithsonian Institution has been looking for a place to put its over-sized displays. There simply isn't room on the mall to do that. There is at Dulles Airport, and it doesn't detract in any way from the Air and Space Museum on the mall.

  The Air and Space Museum on the mall, in fact, has become the world's most popular museum. Imagine that. Imagine. Of all the museums all over the world, this is the world's most popular, and understandably so.

  But visitors to the Air and Space Museum can only imagine what the ''Enola Gay'' looks like or the SR-71 Blackbird spy plane or the space shuttle ''Enterprise.'' We have them; it's just that we can't display them.

  This will give us an opportunity for people to--they will go to the mall and then we're going to arrange transportation so they can get right out to Dulles Airport and see these major achievements.
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  They really ought to be displayed. They are a powerful recognition of America's dominance in both flight and space achievement, and just the fact that they're over-sized and can't fit in the current museum ought not be reason that people can be denied seeing them physically, because we have the capacity. And that's all we're talking about. We're talking about doing an extension of the Air and Space Museum at a place that can fit all these over-sized displays.

  It's going to be 66,000 square meters, more than four times the present museum, built immediately adjacent to Dulles Airport. It will be built without the expenditure of any Federal funds--that's worth repeating--without the expenditure of any Federal funds.

  It marks a radical departure from the past by authorizing the Smithsonian, in partnership with the Commonwealth of Virginia and local governments and the private sector, to leverage private funds to build and operate the museum.

  Talk about a win/win opportunity.

  I'm pleased to be an original sponsor of this legislation, along with Tom and Frank and Senator Warner, and everyone in our delegation supports it. I would hope that everyone on this subcommittee will, as well.

  If we can move expeditiously, we could see it happen in the not-too-distant future.

  Thank you.
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  Mr. GILCHREST. Thanks a lot, Jim.

  Ms. Norton, any questions?

  Ms. NORTON. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Mascara?

  Mr. MASCARA. Well, first of all, I want to welcome both of my colleagues, with whom I've had the pleasure of working.

  Mr. MORAN. I want you to know, Mr. Chairman, this guy left my subcommittee to get on your subcommittee. He left the Civil Service Subcommittee just to be on the Public Works Subcommittee. Son of a gun. I needed his vote.


  Mr. MASCARA. Thank you, Congressman. It's a pleasure.

  This question probably would be more appropriate for the director, but it might give you cause to think a moment about the possibilities here, although they may seem benign at this time.

  I note that, out of the $200 million, $51 million is coming vis a vis contributions or donors, or what have you. My first question is: one, given the rhetoric of the possibility of a flat tax and my background in taxes, could that adversely affect the raising of these funds over a period of years if the new income tax and the Internal Revenue Service code would delete or not permit donations or contributions being tax exempt? And if that possibility existed, could it be written into the law now that any contributions or donations to this particular project would be permitted to be a deduction?
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  Mr. DAVIS. I'll take first stab at it.

  First of all, I think if you tried to write that into the law now and get protection you'd hear from the Ways and Means Committee in terms of jurisdiction. We'd never get the bill out.

  I don't think there is any question that if you go to a flat tax that would exclude charitable deductions, charitable contributions are going to go down. Who knows which projects that would affect, but for corporations, in particular, who are driven by the bottom line for their shareholders, you'd be taking essentially after-tax dollars and distributing them to charitable groups instead of shareholders. You'd have some interesting shareholder meetings as you start distributing more and more in those areas.

  So I don't know what effect it would have on this project, but I think in general charitable giving would go down.

  Mr. MASCARA. I'm supportive of the project; I just thought----

  Mr. DAVIS. You wanted to get your dig in for the flat tax. I happen to agree with you on that side of it.

  Mr. MORAN. Clearly, it would raise the financing cost. It would raise the financing cost of a lot of projects. I don't think we ought to act specifically on this to protect this one. There will be a whole lot of interests wanting to--I have a suspicion that may not be something that ought to cause a great deal of anxiety.
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  Mr. MASCARA. That was my background reacting to the information I received about the project.

  Mr. MORAN. Yes.

  Mr. MASCARA. And I'm supportive of the project.

  Mr. MORAN. Yes. Thank you.

  Mr. MASCARA. Thank you.

  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Thank you, Mr. Mascara.

  I think all of us are pretty much in support of the project, and as this thing moves--we hope expeditiously--as it moves through the course of the coming years, we'd like to work with you to iron out any kinks that happen to arise.

  Gentlemen, thank you very much for your testimony.

  Mr. MORAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

  Mr. DAVIS. Thank you for the opportunity.
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  [The prepared statement Mr. Moran follows:]

  [Insert here.]

  Mr. GILCHREST. Our next panel will be The Honorable Robert Martinez, secretary of Department of Transportation for the Commonwealth of Virginia, and Mr. Donald D. Engen, director of National Air and Space Museum, Smithsonian Institution.

  Thank you, gentlemen, for coming. We will hear first from Secretary Martinez.


  Mr. MARTINEZ. Thank you very much.

  Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, I am Rob Martinez. I'm Secretary of Transportation for the Commonwealth of Virginia.

  On behalf of Governor George Allen, I appreciate this opportunity to speak in favor of H.R. 3393.

  Four consecutive Virginia governors have supported the Smithsonian Institution's efforts to construct a museum facility at Dulles International Airport in northern Virginia. Today we fully endorse this bill, which authorizes construction of the National Air and Space Museum Dulles Center.
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  Admiral Engen I believe will speak to you about the importance of this facility to the preservation of this country's aviation heritage.

  I wish to emphasize the importance of such a museum to the educational objectives of Virginia and, in fact, to the educational objectives of the entire country.

  The Air and Space Museum's Dulles Center will be a most unique classroom. This project will bring jobs to Virginia during construction and after it opens. It is an educational facility that will attract and entertain millions of visitors.

  Virginia supports this national facility. We are extremely proud that the Smithsonian has chosen Virginia as the site for its new home for preserving the history of flight. We have demonstrated our serious support by pledging funding for the sites, for new roadways and a taxiway, and for a new Barnsfield Road interchange on Route 28.

  The Commonwealth pledged to provide a $3 million interest-free loan, of which the Smithsonian has already drawn a portion.

  Virginia also pledged a $6 million design and construction grant and authority for up to $100 million in bonds. Governor Allen signed a memorandum of understanding with the Smithsonian this past spring formalizing this offer.

  We've further pledged in this MOU to work on plans for extension of rail service to Dulles Airport. I personally chaired a committee composed primarily of local elected officials, but also including the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority and the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, which worked for 2 years developing a regionally-preferred alternative for extension of a Metro-like rail system to Dulles Airport.
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  Just last month this regionally-supported alternative for extending rail service was endorsed by the Commonwealth Transportation Board as Virginia's preferred approach, and it has the endorsement of Governor Allen.

  While this is a long-term project, we will work vigorously to bring it to fruition.

  We have worked closely with the Smithsonian Institution for many years. We are eager to welcome the Smithsonian as our newest resident.

  We urge your support of this bill to authorize construction of the Air and Space Museum's new home for its collection.

  Thank you very much.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Thank you for your testimony.

  Mr. Engen?

  Mr. ENGEN. Mr. Chairman, it's a pleasure to be here before you this evening and I thank you very much.

  I will provide a statement for the record and will abbreviate my comments. Also, I'd like to enter into the record a little more-detailed information that I think you might find useful.
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  I've recently become the Director of the National Air and Space Museum, a job for which I feel well-qualified and I'm very, very proud to be where I am.

  Among other things, I'm dedicated to funding and completing our Dulles Center in a 5-year time frame. This is ambitious, but I'm driven to make this happen. We need that facility even today, as we speak, and not just 5 years hence. We need it right now.

  We intend to finance this project through a relatively small and vital Federal design planning fund, the help of the Commonwealth of Virginia for infrastructure and loans, and support from individuals and corporate America. We will not use Federal funds for construction.

  I wish to thank one and all for the bipartisan support that we've seen at the local, State, and Federal level. It has really been magnificent to date.

  I would be pleased to respond to any questions that you might have, and if I can't answer them fully I would like to provide it for the record later.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Thank you, Mr. Engen.

  Mr. Mascara, do you have any questions?

  Mr. MASCARA. None, other than the subject I broached earlier about the use of deductions for contributions made. How would that--over what period of time is that $50 million expected to be generated? Do you have any idea, Mr. Engen?
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  Mr. ENGEN. Mr. Mascara, let me say that, generally speaking, I am going to set out to raise close to $100 million not just $50 million. We have a bond issue that we are prepared to work with, the State of Virginia and ourselves, the Smithsonian. And the State, itself, is providing funds in the amount of roughly $40 million in infrastructure.

  And yes, I must say I'm not a tax person, but I'm sure that if the tax law is changed it will become more difficult. But let me hasten to say I've spent my entire life in aviation. I've been flying for 54 years. I watch the people come to the museum today. It's almost like a temple. We have tremendous support. There is a welling up of interest in this museum and in this Dulles Center.

  I believe that we will have the support not only of corporate America, but of the people of America.

  Mr. MASCARA. Thank you.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Thank you, Mr. Mascara.

  Secretary Martinez, could you explain to us how the bond issue is to be paid?

  Mr. MARTINEZ. Well, if I could just basically read the effective paragraph from the MOU, ''It is contemplated that up to $100 million of the funding for the project may be obtained through the sale of bonds. The bonds used to fund the project will be serviced from Smithsonian income generated at and around the center, and the amount of bond financing will be based on a forecasting of such income. If additional support or guarantees are required for the sale of bonds, the Smithsonian and Virginia will work together to determine the nature of the support required and how the support will be provided. In developing a financing plan, the Smithsonian may elect to issue its own bonds or request Virginia to issue the bonds or use a combination thereof to finance the project. This will be done through the mutual agreement between the Smithsonian and Virginia.''
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  That is the commitment.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Thank you.

  What is the length of the term----

  Mr. MARTINEZ. Could I just add one other point?

  Mr. GILCHREST. Sure.

  Mr. MARTINEZ. Virginia is one of only six States that has a AAA credit rating in the United States, so we have a AAA credit rating from each of the major credit rating agencies. Of course, that puts us in a very good position as far as the market is concerned.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Thank you.

  Mr. ENGEN. Mr. Chairman, can I add something?

  Mr. GILCHREST. Sure, Mr. Engen.

  Mr. ENGEN. It might help a little bit.

  Of course, bond issues are paid by revenue, and the Smithsonian has conducted a study. The number of visitors that will come to the Smithsonian will use the gift shops, will use the parking facility which is planned and the IMAX Theater. We estimate that somewhere between two and four million people will visit the museum at the Dulles Center each year.
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  Mr. GILCHREST. Can I ask, Mr. Engen, how many people visit the facility here on the mall now?

  Mr. ENGEN. Eight million.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Eight million?

  Mr. ENGEN. Yes, sir.

  Mr. GILCHREST. So even though this facility will be somewhat out of the way, you still expect at least three or four million people?

  Mr. ENGEN. Yes, sir. They will come. They really will.

  Mr. GILCHREST. So there's no doubt in your minds that the Federal Government is not at risk?

  Mr. ENGEN. No doubt in my mind, sir. I think I'm at risk, and I have great confidence that the revenue stream--first of all, the bond amount will be determined by the visitors. At the low end it's $60 million; at the high end it's $100 million. We will start with $60 million and then, if we prove that, we will perhaps issue more bonds.

  Mr. GILCHREST. What is the length of the terms for the bond?

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  Mr. ENGEN. We haven't entered in a negotiation yet.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Is there any guess?

  Mr. ENGEN. I'd be----

  Mr. GILCHREST. Twenty years, 30 years?

  Mr. ENGEN. I'd like to provide it for the record, if I may.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Okay.

  Mr. ENGEN. I don't want to say right now.

  [The information to be supplied follows:]

  There could be 20- and 30-year bonds. We would negotiate that period of repayment that wpould work out best for the museum.
  [Also see answer provided by Smithsonian to question #6 (provide pro forma financial information) from Committee staff.]

  Mr. GILCHREST. Now, part of the payment for the bond is coming from the revenue generated at the facility, I would guess, through the sale of souvenirs and other sources of revenue generated at the facility. Where does that revenue go once the bonds are paid back? Is there any idea what to do with that?
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  Mr. ENGEN. The revenue will--once the bonds are paid back, any revenues accrued to the Dulles Center will go to run the Dulles Center. It will be----

  Mr. GILCHREST. Is there an estimate----

  Mr. ENGEN. ----reinvested right there.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Is there an estimate of the cost of operation and maintenance on an annual basis right now?

  Mr. ENGEN. I'm sorry to say, sir, that there is not yet, and I could give you an estimate, but my budget on the mall is something on the order of $15 million.

  Mr. GILCHREST. That's an annual operation and maintenance cost to run that facility?

  Mr. ENGEN. Yes.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Who will pick up the tab on the operation and maintenance of the new facility? Is that the Federal Government?

  Mr. ENGEN. If it's a facility in the Institution it will.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Now, will that also be the case once the bonds are paid back?

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  Mr. ENGEN. I think----

  Mr. GILCHREST. Then it would, I assume, be reduced through that revenue?

  Mr. ENGEN. Yes. Yes, sir.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Will there be admission charged to the----

  Mr. ENGEN. It is not planned to charge admission.

  Mr. GILCHREST. How about parking?

  Mr. ENGEN. There will be a charge for parking. We have to establish a revenue stream, and I believe, because of Dulles Airport parking nearby, I think it's fitting that there be some charge for people who will park there.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Any idea how much that would be?

  Mr. ENGEN. No, sir. I don't----

  Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Moran said there would be transportation. Is that a shuttle from this facility to the new facility at Dulles?

  Mr. ENGEN. I believe Mr. Moran was talking about light rail, sir, which will run down the Dulles Access Road. I was the former Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration and I ran Dulles and Washington National. We've left a spot in the center of the Dulles Access Road to run light rail, and I believe he's referring to that.
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  Mr. MARTINEZ. That's one question I probably should answer. I do want to point out that part of Virginia's commitment is that we would work with local jurisdictions to provide some sort of shuttle bus service from the existing West Falls Church metro stop of the orange line of the Metro system to this new center.

  However, in addition to that, as I pointed out in my remarks, under the ISTEA, following the ISTEA regulations, Virginia just last month did approve its preferred alternative for the extension of a Metro-like system which would connect at West Falls Church, would have three stations in Tyson's Corner, a couple of stations going out through the median of the Dulles Access Road, and then have a station directly at Dulles Airport.

  That was approved by the Commonwealth Transportation Board. We will be committing some preliminary engineering funding to that this coming year in June, and, of course, we will be seeking transit assistance through the Federal Transit Administration for the extension of that system.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Is part of the impetus to build light rail the fact that the museum will be there? Would it have been done anyway?

  Mr. MARTINEZ. The fact that the museum would be there would generate some of the ridership that would have been used in the projections for the estimates that we used on the structure for the rail system, certainly. But you've got to consider--and this meaning no insult--even if we do achieve the very high level of visitorship, which I'm sure that we will, that is a relatively small proportion of the overall corridor that we are going to be serving.
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  Tyson's Corner is one of the largest edge cities you have in the United States.

  Mr. GILCHREST. And growing.

  Mr. MARTINEZ. And, of course, Dulles Airport, itself, is a major generator of traffic, as it is.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Secretary, who will own the land that the museum will be on?

  Mr. MARTINEZ. Admiral?

  Mr. ENGEN. The Federal Government now owns the land, which is leased by the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority. We will lease at a very agreeable rate the land, the 185 acres upon which this model will be built.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Are there any environmental problems up to date or any future anticipated?

  Mr. ENGEN. We will have to go through an environmental assessment. There is a small portion of wetlands. The architects tell me that that is away from the area on which we want to build, but we will abide by all the rules and regulations in environment.

  Mr. GILCHREST. So there is likely not to be any impact on wetlands or other environmentally-sensitive land or habitat as a result of this?
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  Mr. ENGEN. Yes, sir, there will not be.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Engen, you estimated the total cost of the project to be about $200 million. Does that include the $100 million from Virginia and your $100 million? That's a maximum of $200 million from all sources?

  Mr. ENGEN. All costs, all sources.

  Mr. GILCHREST. I see.

  Mr. ENGEN. And I would hasten to say that the infrastructure is on the order of $40 million and the bond issue and the money I must raise makes up the remainder.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Has the Washington Area Airport Authority been consulted throughout this process?

  Mr. ENGEN. Absolutely. Yes, sir. And I would like to thank them very much, the board of directors and the management of the Washington Metropolitan Airports Authority, because they really have been supportive.

  I've just been advised that our estimated cost to run the center out there is $8 to $10 million a year.

  Mr. GILCHREST. That's about half of what you said before.
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  Mr. ENGEN. My budget on the mall is $15 million.

  Mr. GILCHREST. So you were going to pay these people a little bit more than the staff envisions, I guess, the maintenance crew.

  Mr. Mascara, did you have a question?

  Mr. MASCARA. One comment, and then maybe a question.

  I take it that you do not have a pro forma, because the questions that the chairman was asking about the different costs--you do not have a pro forma at this time on this total project?

  Mr. ENGEN. They are all estimates, but I'm prepared to provide for the record, Ms. Mascara--I have what I consider a pro forma.

  Mr. MASCARA. Okay. Fine.

  [The information to be supplied follows:]

  [insert here.]

  Mr. MASCARA. The other is, Mr. Secretary, given my background in transportation with the Southwestern Pennsylvania Regional Planning Commission, as its Chair I had part of the responsibility for implementing the ISTEA plan and the national highway system plan. We're reauthorizing ISTEA, and I understand now we're talking about the use of some ISTEA funds by the Commonwealth.
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  Is the planning agency wherever this is located prepared to have this a part of their ISTEA plan also to take care of the funding that you're talking about that will be required? And will the Commonwealth provide the matching money to draw down the ISTEA funds?

  Mr. MARTINEZ. As far as the Commonwealth is concerned, our commitment is very clear. We will do what's necessary to put in the infrastructure that we've committed to, and all of that's spelled out in the MOU.

  The $40 million number that the admiral refers to is a preliminary estimate, since obviously we have not done any sophisticated design at this point on the elements that are in the MOU. So that is preliminary, but we are committed to making it happen.

  We have a very good relationship with the Transportation Planning Board of the WASHCOG--Washington Council of Governments. I've got a thing called ''Stop Talking in Acronyms.'' I'll get lost there.

  So I'm certain that, with the number of years and the level of support that this has in the region, as a whole, evidenced, for example, by the Congresswoman's statements, as well as by the three Congressmen from northern Virginia, I have no doubt that the WASHCOG's TPB, which is our metropolitan planning organization, will endorse this project.

  Mr. MASCARA. And the other is, there was a little bit of a discrepancy, Admiral, if I might. Information provided to me by Chairman Gilchrest indicated that the total Commonwealth support was $149 and that the Smithsonian would raise an additional $51 million, and somehow you've increased the 51 to $100 million. Will the State's $149 million then be reduced to $100 million?
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  Mr. ENGEN. Yes, sir.

  Mr. MASCARA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Thank you, Mr. Mascara.

  One more quick question. Part of this, from your testimony, is going to be--part of the funds raised will be from corporate donations, corporate sponsors. Has there been any thought given to, if any, some restriction as far as their ability to advertise or use this for their benefit through advertising?

  Mr. ENGEN. Let me hasten to add that we at the Smithsonian and at the National Air and Space Museum are very sensitive to corporate sponsorship. We rely a great deal upon corporations and individuals.

  An exhibit we're going to open next week called ''How Things Fly'' was paid for by Boeing and NASA and supported by Cessna Aircraft. We're very careful that this support that allows us to develop these exhibits is not commercialized. I'm very sensitive to making our museum, if you will, commercial in any exhibit area.

  We do have bookstores. We do have places set aside beyond the exhibit areas where we do get revenue to help run the Smithsonian and my museum, but we don't allow the corporations to take hold, and they know that.

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  Mr. GILCHREST. Thank you very much.

  If there are no further statements or questions, gentlemen, thank you very much for attending. You have helped us understand this process a lot better, and we will support it and move it through in the next coming years.

  Mr. ENGEN. May I conclude, sir?

  Mr. GILCHREST. Yes, sir.

  Mr. ENGEN. I'd just mention that it means a good deal to me, and timing is everything in fund-raising, and I would really like your support to have our bill in the near-term, if we can--just the bill--so that I can then hire a capital campaign manager and I can begin to raise money.

  Each day that goes by is very important to me, and so this is a timely bill.

  Mr. GILCHREST. Yes, sir. We understand. Thank you very much.

  The hearing is adjourned.

  [Whereupon, at 4:36 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned, to reconvene at the call of the Chair.]

  [Insert here.]
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