Table of Contents *

OPENING STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE MATT SALMON, SUBCOMMITTEE ON EARLY CHILDHOOD, YOUTH AND FAMILIES, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES *

STATEMENT OF LISA GRAHAM KEEGAN, SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION, ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, PHOENIX, ARIZONA. *

STATEMENT OF EDDIE BASHA, BASHA'S MARKETS, CHANDLER, ARIZONA *

STATEMENT OF DR. SANDRA E. DOWLING, SUPERINTENDENT, MARICOPA COUNTY SCHOOLS, PHOENIX, ARIZONA *

STATEMENT OF EDITH SIMS, EDUCATION SPECIALIST, SPOKANE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, SPOKANE, WASHINGTON. *

STATEMENT OF SARA GARFIELD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ST. MARY'S INTERFAITH TRANSITIONAL LEARNING CENTER, STOCKTON, CALIFORNIA *

STATEMENT OF CHUCK BACON, FORMER STUDENT, THOMAS P. PAPPAS SCHOOL, PHOENIX, ARIZONA *

STATEMENT OF TAMMY WELLS, PARENT *

STATEMENT OF WALTER VARNER, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF THE EDUCATION OF HOMELESS CHILDREN AND YOUTH, BALTIMORE, MD *

STATEMENT OF DR. LUISA STARK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PHOENIX CONSORTIUM TO END HOMELESSNESS, PHOENIX, AZ *

APPENDIX A -- WRITTEN OPENING STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE MATT SALMON, SUBCOMMITTEE ON EARLY CHILDHOOD, YOUTH AND FAMILIES, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES *

APPENDIX B -- WRITTEN STATEMENT OF LISA GRAHAM KEEGAN, SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION, ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, PHOENIX, ARIZONA *

APPENDIX C -- WRITTEN STATEMENT OF EDDIE BASHA, BASHA'S MARKETS, CHANDLER, ARIZONA *

Committee on Education and the Workforce,

Subcommittee on Early Childhood, Youth

and Families,

Hearing on "Educating Homeless Children"

355 North 5^th Avenue

Phoenix, AZ

Tuesday, September 5, 2000

The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 1:00 p.m., at the Thomas J. Pappas School, 355 North 5th Avenue, Phoenix, Arizona, Hon. Matt Salmon [chairman of the subcommittee] presiding.

Present: Representatives Salmon, Shadegg and Scott.

Staff Present: Rich Stombres, Professional Staff Member on subcommittee majority staff.

Chairman Salmon. My name is Matt Salmon. I am the Congressman from Arizona's First District, and to my immediate left is Congressman John Shadegg from the Fourth District here in Arizona. To my right is Congressman Bobby Scott from Virginia, and Congressman Scott and I serve on the Education Committee together.

The seating here it not any kind of a philosophical position. Bobby is to my right; John is to my left. It is really not that way, but anyhow, we are very, very pleased to be here today for many reasons.

We are here at the Pappas School, which has been a very, very positive impact for the children of our community.

First of all, I would like to thank Superintendent Sandra Dowling, Dick Brice, and Erna Lee Phelps for all of their hard work in making this hearing a reality.

You know, it is really a privilege to be here today to witness the first day of school and see hundreds of nervous and excited children heading to their new classrooms. It is a familiar, reassuring site. It is something we have come to expect as parents.

But you should know something about these particular children. Though they look no different from any other children, these children have no home. Yet when you look at these kids, you see optimism and opportunity. What you see is success in a small area of the public school system, success that would not have been possible without the tireless efforts of dedicated professionals and the constant support of this community for over ten years.

It is the preservation of this very success that brings us here today. In 1987, Congress passed the Stuart B. McKinney Homeless Assistance Act. At that time less than half of the nation's homeless youth were enrolled in school. These kids had not received immunizations. They lacked transportation. They lacked food, and they lacked clothing.

Many of them were being physically and sexually abused and had to stay away from public places like school because their lives were at risk.

Schools had little incentive to track these kids. They were behind academically, expensive to educate, and sometimes exhibited behavioral problems and poor hygiene.

At school, they were taunted, ostracized and ultimately neglected. When these children were thrown into mainstream public schools, many of them simply drown.

In response, with the help of McKinney funding, local educators began to create environments where homeless children could learn and grow. Today more than 40 schools for homeless children exist throughout the nation. These are institutions so diverse and innovative that no one description actually defines any of them or defines all of them.

But imagine a school that functions as a kind of institutional safety net and works to insure that children are attending school every day in a stable environment. This school meets every child's physical needs by providing food, clothing, basic living supplies, even medical and dental care, and for many of the children with emotional disabilities, this school provides psychological counseling and individual mentors.

Moreover, this school will assess a student's educational status and work to improve those areas of knowledge where the student has fallen behind.

And finally, when parents and school personnel agree that little Sara or Robert is ready, this school will mainstream the child into a traditional public school, while insuring that the student continues to receive support services, that lifeline.

And it calls itself a traditional school because its students live in a world that is constantly changing, and the beauty of this school is that it makes children's lives change for the better.

It may be hard to imagine why anyone would oppose a school such as Pappas, but as one joker suggested, Washington breed’s people with big heads and little minds.

The National Law Center, Department of Education, and the Coalition for Homeless contend that Pappas and other transition schools provide segregated education services. They even suggest that parents who choose to enroll their children in Pappas type schools are discriminating against them in a way similar to the ugly racial segregation of yesteryear. How ridiculous.

They argue that transitional schools cannot provide a quality education, while ignoring the fact that many students make extraordinary progress in such a nurturing and need specific environment. They submit as evidence a report that makes inaccurate claims about teachers and programs at these schools.

Finally, they demand that all homeless children be mainstreamed without regard to whether such placement is in the best interest of the student or represents the desire of the parents.

But I do not intend to let Washington, D.C. bureaucrats who have never been out here and who rejected our invitation to appear at today's hearing, you will find that later there will be an empty seat where the Department of Education is supposed to be, succeed in shutting down Pappas or other transition schools.

Certainly, we cannot let them succeed when the evidence suggests that these schools are helping homeless children succeed against great odds.

Federal law, while admittedly in need of clarification, does not prohibit the use of McKinney funds for Pappas or other special schools that meet the needs of the homeless. If it did, the U.S. Department of Education would not continue to seek a legislative remedy to shut down these schools. The department has even admitted in response to congressional inquiries that the existence of transitional schools per se is not in violation of the McKinney Act.

However, the passage of the major House education bill, the Student Results Act, H.R. 2, included administrative language to deny McKinney funding to students that segregate a child either in a separate school or in a separate program within a school.

Think about that for a second. The House passed a bill that would not only lead to the end of Pappas type schools, but would bar mainstream public schools from offering special programs to the homeless even within the school. This language is so restrictive that it would eliminate an option proposed by the National Coalition for the Homeless, which assisted in drafting the administration language.

Here is a quote from a packet that the Coalition distributes to homeless educators, and this is their quote. ``When a student does not attend school because he/she does not feel safe in school, cannot cope with the school environment, has failed in the regular system or has been abused or ridiculed to the point of withdrawal, one solution is to provide alternative schooling within the shelter or an alternative setting more acceptable to the children.''

I ask the National Coalition: doesn't Pappas provide that very solution?

Fortunately, the Student Results Act included the Salmon amendment, which would permit McKinney funding to continue to flow to states with homeless only schools already in existence. So it grandfathered those like the Pappas schools that already exist.

Without the Salmon amendment, which the administration hopes to strip in the Senate, Arizona would face a horrible choice: cut off all state funding for Pappas, which would lead to the school's demise, or lose 440,000 in McKinney funding that several other schools in the state rely on to educate homeless children, a true Hobson's choice.

Aware that Congress would almost have certainly included language protecting the existing homeless schools in any education bill sent to the President, the Department of Education attempted to circumvent the legislative process. The department sent an opinion letter to the states arguing that homelessness alone should not be sufficient reason to separate students from the mainstream school environment.

The Arizona Department of Education, after asking the federal Department of Education to clarify this position, received the reply that the issue was still unclear. Therefore, Superintendent Lisa Graham Keegan announced today that Pappas would receive McKinney funding this year. We commend her for this decisive action.

As it now stands, McKinney funding has been taken away from all but a few of the transitional schools nationwide. You will hear today from Sarah Garfield, an educator whose school has been honored by Presidents Clinton and Bush, but recently lost its $110,000 McKinney grant, a quarter of the annual budget.

In another disappointing case, the Homeless Coordinator's Office in Oregon with the National Coalition for the Homeless standing behind them forced the Oregon Public School District to withdraw their funding from a homeless school by threatening to take away funds for the entire school district. To say heavy-handed would be a big understatement.

But why? Why take the safety net away from our homeless population? Why return these children to the failed policies of the past? Why shut down programs that are successful in helping homeless children get an education? Why not let parents have the choice of an alternative program? Shouldn't we be talking about more flexibility, not less?

If the administration shuts the doors to Pappas, they will slam in the face of these children. They will slam another door in the face of these children, and have these children not been kicked around enough already? They have lost their homes. Please do not take away their schools.

Before I close, I would like to submit for the record support from a few people who have stood behind these schools. We have here a letter from Tipper Gore to the Director of the Mustard Seed School in Sacramento, California. Here she says, ``I wish that there were more places like this around the country.''

Here is an article describing how Bill Gates donated $1 million to the First Place School in Seattle Washington. Here is the pledge from Positive Tomorrows School in Oklahoma, by which Colin Powell's organization, America's Promise made Positive Tomorrows the first School of Promise in the state. And here is an article from Colin Powell's meeting with a student from Positive Tomorrows.

Finally, this letter from Jonathan Kozall, a nationally acclaimed writer and educator who has spent his life fighting segregation and educational inequality. This is what he says about the Mustard Seed School, which is similar in nature to the Pappas School. ``Mustard Seed is a truly remarkable and inspired little school. I hope that it will win the strongest possible support because it represents a model of what should be done for homeless children all over the nation.''

At the federal government, we are supposed to do what is right on behalf of children, on behalf of families. Folks, I do not know about you, but I am nervous about the future when I see that American children scored twentieth on the international test scores in math and science, behind war torn Slovenia. It tells me we have got some work to do.

And that work is not about closing off options for families and parents. We ought to be about what helps people to thrive and to succeed and children to get a quality education. It ought not be about turf. It ought not be about power plays. It ought to be what is best for the children, what gives them the most quality education they can receive, what keeps them in school and learning, and what gives them the opportunity to thrive.

That is why we have conducted this hearing today. We want this to survive public scrutiny. We want the public light of day on this issue. We would like those who want to close Pappas School and want to close schools like it to defend their position, to be able to convince people out there that this is right. If not, they then ought to pack.

So I appreciate this opportunity. I appreciate the fact that Congressman Scott has gone to great trouble to come here today from Virginia. Congressman Shadegg is here. I appreciate our esteemed panelists whom I will introduce in just a few minutes.

But I would like to turn to my right, Bobby Scott, and ask him if there are any comments that he would like to make before the hearing.

WRITTEN OPENING STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE MATT SALMON, SUBCOMMITTEE ON EARLY CHILDHOOD, YOUTH AND FAMILIES, COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES – SEE APPENDIX A

Mr. Scott. Well, thank you. And I want to thank you, Matt, for convening the hearing on the issue of education for homeless children here at the Thomas J. Pappas School.

As Matt mentioned, we both serve on the Education Committee. So, I am well aware of his interest and dedication to public education. I am also pleased to be here with John Shadegg, who serves on the Commerce Committee. We work on a number of different issues together. I also want to thank our witnesses who will be providing testimony today, which will develop a hearing record for the formulation of appropriate federal policy on the education of homeless children.

It is in our national interest to educate all children regardless of their family's income, race, ethnicity, disability, or housing status. We know our competitiveness in the global economy depends on a workforce, which is highly educated, and we know that there is a significant correlation between lack of education and future incidence of crime and welfare dependency.

Reaching the goal of educational opportunity for all is especially challenging when the focus is on educating homeless children. Logistical barriers exist, such as lack of birth certificates, medical records, and other documents usually needed to register for school, and transportation to school is a unique problem for those without a permanent address.

The Stuart McKinney Homeless Assistance Act has provided funding which has removed some of these barriers and, in fact, prohibited outright many of those obstacles, and so many homeless children now have access to educational services that had previously been denied.

Unfortunately a lot more work needs to be done to insure that all barriers to education faced by homeless children are overcome. Today's specific focus on education provided by the Pappas School raises some important questions about how we as a nation should provide for the education of homeless children.

The Pappas School segregates homeless children from their non-homeless peers, while children who attend Pappas School are clearly better served than those who receive no educational services whatsoever. We do know successful models, which currently exist which do not practice this form of segregation. In fact, since the McKinney Act passed in 1990, the percentage of homeless children attending school has increased from 50 percent to almost 90 percent.

We, therefore, have to consider the appropriateness of the separate but equal educational setting for homeless children. The practice of racially separate but equal education was invalidated by the United States Supreme Court in 1954 in the landmark decision Brown v. Board of Education. In that decision, the Court provided us with the foundation of federal educational policy that is still instructive.

In 1954 the Court said, ``Today education is perhaps the most important function of state and local governments. Compulsory school attendance laws and the great expenditures for education both demonstrate our recognition of the importance of education to our democratic society. It is required in the performance of our most basic public responsibilities, even service in the Armed Forces. It is the very foundation of good citizenship. Today it is the principal instrument in awakening the child to cultural values and preparing him for later professional training and in helping him to adjust normally to his environment. In these days, it is doubtful that any child may reasonably be expected to succeed in life if he is denied the opportunity of an education.''

The Court went on to reason that separating children based on race creates a feeling of inferiority in black children who recognize the insidious purpose of segregation, and that the state sanctioned stamp of inferiority has long-term adverse effects on the child's future development. So, the Court concluded by stating that in the field of public education the doctrine of separate but equal has no place. Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal.

Brown v. Board of Education dealt with the issue of race. The arguments are applicable towards any educational setting involving forms of segregation, including the model here found at Pappas, and Pappas segregates people by homeless status alone. It's not children at risk. It's not special needs students. It's homelessness alone.

So we have to remember, therefore, that we are discussing federal policy and must be particularly cognizant of the implications that this model has for federal education policy for homeless children throughout the nation. Many other school districts have chosen to educate homeless children alongside their non-homeless counterparts and are achieving good results because they are providing the necessary support services for these children.

And we need to study the kinds of services, which will make a difference to all homeless children because even in Phoenix, Arizona, the Pappas School only serves ten to 15 percent of the homeless children. So we don't want to do anything to leave the other 85 to 90 percent behind.

It is, therefore, my hope that today we will hear the research for all successful strategies in order to gain a fuller understanding of how we can continue to provide all children with quality educational opportunities.

Now, a fair comparison between the Pappas model and other strategies will be difficult because the Pappas School is blessed with substantial private sector support, and as we establish federal policy for the education of homeless children across the nation, we cannot reasonably assume that essential educational and social services will be funded by the private sector, and in fact, it would be wrong to adopt a federal policy which conditions the homeless child's opportunity to an education on the charity of local businesses.

And, I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this important hearing, and I look forward to the testimony of our witnesses.

Chairman Salmon. Thank you, Mr. Scott.

Mr. Shadegg.

Mr. Shadegg. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much.

I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing today and express my appreciation. I also want to particularly thank Congressman Bobby Scott for flying all the way from Virginia to be here. I think it is his participation, which is critically important because it is easy for those of us who live in Phoenix, Arizona to know the good the Thomas Pappas School, does. Unfortunately, not everyone in America understands that. Not everyone in America recognizes the good that is done, nor does every member of Congress take the time and put in the energy to fly all the way across the country and to get a different view.

I want to thank both of you for holding this hearing. As members of the Education Committee, I know you both to be tireless advocates for children and their right to a quality education and to the right of homeless children for a quality education, and for all children regardless of their family circumstances.

I think it would be inappropriate, and I will keep my remarks brief. I am not a member of the Education Committee. By tradition in the United States Congress, when a committee holds a field hearing, such as this, local members of Congress are often invited to participate. So I am here at the indulgence of the Chairman and Mr. Scott and being allowed to participate, and so I will be brief in my remarks.

But let me just say that I think it is important, first, to acknowledge before we go too much further that the Thomas J. Pappas School is a unique school. It really started in honor of Tom Pappas himself, who was a tireless advocate for inner city causes, for the cause of the homeless, for the cause of the needy.

And it has turned out to be a vastly greater success than I think perhaps anybody ever imagined. I know that there are at least two members of the Pappas family here today, and I want to express my appreciation for all the work that Tom Pappas did and for the great legacy he left us in this school.

I must concede I have a slight bias in favor of the Pappas family because one of the Pappas’s, John Pappas, is my press secretary. So, I wanted to acknowledge them.

I am particularly pleased also to be here on the first day of school. The importance of the first day of school is not lost on me, and to see many children around this room and to know that they are here and full of excitement.

Just a week ago I took my son to Thunderbird High School for his first day of school, and I watched even at that age level the anticipation that he had and felt comfortable because I knew that he was going to a school where he would get a quality education. I knew that because his sister, my daughter, graduated from Thunderbird High School earlier this year, and just a little over a week ago, we took her to college. And I will tell you it does not change. The first day is the first day whether it is kindergarten or high school or college.

Thomas J. Pappas School has been providing children in this community, children who by circumstances over which they have no control simply happen to be homeless; has been giving those children a first day of school that they can be proud of and excited about for now a number of years, and I think it is one that it would be a tragedy, an absolute tragedy to lose in this community.

I think it is important also to recognize the service that this school provides. Whether a Pappas student slept last night in a shelter or in a motel or in a park or on the street, they have at the Pappas School the unique opportunity to have some stability. They can come to this school week in and week out, and there will be no bias against them, no prejudice against them, no stigmatization of them as a result of their status in life and where they spent the night before.

And as has already been mentioned, there are many unique services that they get here at the Pappas School, which, they could not get at another school.

But I want to highlight one point in particular. Everyone agrees, and I suggest this is true of all of us who are members of Congress and all of those who are here today on whatever side of the issue, whether you're one of the people from the community who believes deeply in the Thomas J. Pappas School and wants desperately to see it continued and to see its funding continued or whether you're here as one of the advocates of the other side saying, ``No, this is a mistake. We should cut off funding.''

Everyone here agrees that we must provide a quality education to all students, and that we must do that regardless of their circumstances, including all the circumstances that Congressman Bobby Scott read off in his opening statement and with regard to Thomas J. Pappas School, regardless of their status of their home, whether they slept last night in a motel or in a car on or the street.

The issue is not whether we provide a quality education. The issue is how do we provide that quality education. Is it right to do it at a school like the Thomas J. Pappas School? And I think it is great that we are looking at that issue, but I think it is very important to understand that I am a dedicated advocate of the Thomas J. Pappas School and of the method we have here and believe it would be tragic to cut it off.

Now, the discussion you're going to hear today will focus on words like ``segregation'' and ``stigmatization.'' My colleague, Mr. Scott, just made the comment that other models work. yes, other models do work. There is no question about that.

There are children at El Hambro High School. There are children at schools all over this valley who are homeless and are getting a quality education and, indeed, other models do work all the way across the country.

And there was a reference to the notion of separate but equal, but I think it's important to remember that the separate but equal doctrine applied to an education policy in America where the children who were forced into a separate school that was allegedly equal had no choice. That was the only school that they could go to. That is not the situation at the Thomas J. Pappas School or the other 39 like it.

There is a gigantic difference between this school and the schools, which led to the decision in Brown v. Board of Education, separate but equal, and that difference is choice. At the Thomas J. Pappas School today there is not a single child, not one who is here because they are forced to. Every single child, every single child at the Thomas Pappas School today has the choice. They are here because they feel comfortable. They are here because they feel at home. They are here because they do not feel stigmatized, and every single child here has the right to leave today and to go to a neighborhood school. If they want to, they can, and if they want to, they should, and if they want to, we should make that easy for them. But if they feel more stigmatized at that school than they are here, why should we force them out of this school?

Now, no one is arguing that we ought to cut off the education for homeless children. Nobody is saying the McKinney Act is wrong in putting funding in all schools that have some students who are homeless. No one is saying we should force those homeless children into the Pappas School.

But what we are saying is that those children who prefer to come here, those children who feel less stigmatized, those children who feel more comfortable here and who don't have to feel badly about their circumstance that leads them here, for God's sake, do not take away their opportunity.

I applaud all those who are here on either side. I particularly applaud all of you from the community who have just taken the time to show up today and to show your support for the Thomas J. Pappas School because if we are to set the policy correctly in Washington, they need to know of community support for this school.

And so I also applaud, as I mentioned earlier, Congressman Bobby Scott who is here and took the time to fly across the country and hopefully has an open mind in looking at setting the right policy.

However, I want to conclude with this point, if the premise is correct that Thomas J. Pappas School stigmatized children and that separate but equal here is bad, and I would also point out separate but equal does not apply here because they can go to any school. If the children really felt more stigmatized here, felt that they were set aside here, and if their parents felt that they were set aside, since every one of them is here by choice, and if their premise is right, those who want to change the school or close it down, if their underlying argument was correct, because this hurts them and stigmatizes them, why is there a single child here? The answer is they choose this school.

Now, if the debate is to focus on doing a better job of getting them in the mainstream schools, if the focus is we should put more dollars into making sure the parents of these students know of the choice and if the debate is shall we make sure there are adequate resources at community schools for homeless children, I am all for that. But do not shut down the opportunity these kids have. Thank you very much.

Chairman Salmon. We have two very wonderful panels today. On our first panel we have Lisa Graham Keegan. She began her term as the Superintendent of Public Instruction for the state in January of 1995. As Superintendent, she oversees the Arizona Department of Education, which has an annual budget of more than $2 billion.

She serves as the Chief Executive Officer of the State Board of Education, is a member of the Board of Regents, the State Community College Board, the Board of the Arizona School for the Deaf and Blind, the School Facilities Board, and the State Board for Charter Schools. I was privileged to serve in the state legislature with Lisa, and believe me, she really does have our children's best interests at heart.

Another one of our esteemed panelists is Mr. Eddie Basha, the Saint of Arizona and I mean that. There really has not been a positive cause in Arizona that Mr. Basha has not been associated with. I know before I got involved with the Congress, Mr. Basha was tirelessly involved in just about every good effort that I ever became associated with and was involved in numerous ones beside.

I remember Mr. Basha and I were appointed to a group to start a shelter for the East Valley for families, for homeless services, and I know his commitment to education is unparalleled by anybody else, I know, in the state. He not only talks the talk; he walks the walk. He puts his corporate muscle behind everything that he tries to do that is positive for the children.

And moreover, he ended up, I guess, having his airline flight canceled, as so many of us do, and had to fly back here at his own expense on a corporate jet, and that really is a strong commitment. We love you, Eddie, and we appreciate it that you are here.

We were supposed to have a member from the federal Department of Education as well. We extended an invitation to them repeatedly, and they chose not to defend their position and be here today.

So with that, Lisa, I will turn the time to you first.

Ms. Keegan. Sinners before saints.

Mr. Basha. Then I should go first.

Mr. Basha. He did not say what kind of saint.

Ms. Keegan. No, he did not. We will talk about it later.

Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, it is a privilege to be here this morning. I appreciate you pulling together this hearing so that we can talk about not just Thomas J. Pappas, but what is happening to our homeless kids in Arizona and across the nation.

Obviously, I share your concern and passion for these students, and I think Thomas J. Pappas actually is one fabulous choice for a number of children, and I want to talk about why that has to remain so.

I also want to thank the staff and volunteers at Thomas J. Pappas, an amazing group of people. The volunteers here spend untold hours. The staff is extremely passionate and dedicated, and I think we have to constantly congratulate Dr. Dowling for her vision in bringing this school to us in the first place.

I want to talk briefly about the Arizona Department of Education, what we do about McKinney funds, and then talk about the larger issues, which is really, what is happening to these students.

I feel very strongly that we have to work to meet the letters of the law absolutely, but never forget that these are children. These are not chess pieces. This should not look good on a piece of paper. This should be good for a child's heart. It should be good for a child's future. It should be good for where they want to go. It should be a good choice for parents.

So the decisions that we all make and enforce through our laws and our rules and our policies have to look better in real life than they do on paper. That is just the truth for these kids.

In fiscal year 2001, our state received a little over $421,000 in funding under the McKinney Act. We serve approximately 4,000 students across the state.

We receive funding from the U.S. department, and we issue a request for applicants. Under our plan, we provide money through a competitive process that looks at number of homeless students served, coordination with regular education, coordination with other programs, basic areas supporting the child completely.

An outside panel reviews the proposals, and funds are awarded until they are gone. We received 17 applications in the current fiscal year for McKinney funding, including one from the Maricopa District, which does fund the Thomas J. Pappas School.

Thomas J. Pappas is an accommodation school, and according to state law, an accommodation school is a school operated through the County Superintendent and the County Board of Supervisors, in this case in Maricopa County, to serve a military reservation or a territory not included within the boundaries of a school district. The same section of law specifically identifies homeless children as children who can be accommodated in such a school.

Of the 17 proposals submitted, we chose to fund ten applicants. We have a very rigorous review process and, frankly, believe that that reviews process services our students well. We ask great things of these providers, and we think that they deliver.

And Thomas J. Pappas and the Maricopa District are funded this year by the state as they have been for a number of years, and that is because we believe that what they do for children is quite outstanding. We look at their test scores. We look at their gain.

Lots of people talk about test scores at Pappas, and I do not think any of us would say that the test scores, the absolute test scores that are here are what you would ultimately want for children. I know the teachers at the school would not tell you that.

But you also have to look at where the school children start and where they end up, and we have grades at the Pappas School that are making 200 percent of expected gain in a single year with children who came to us just last year. It is a phenomenal success story for the teachers in this school, and I would urge people who want to talk about academic progress and want to say that the Pappas School does not provide the academic support that students could get in another school, I would like to ask them to show me the research. I see no such evidence.

Quite to the contrary, I see academic gain that is almost unbelievable for some of the students and for the school as a whole. It is quite amazing.

The question put to us by the U.S. Department of Education is, are we in compliance with the law when we fund the Pappas School? They sent us a letter back today that Congressman Salmon alluded to, and the question was: do they know yet whether in compliance with the law? They do not know. They are not sure.

We are sure. We are in compliance with the law at Thomas J. Pappas. We will fund this school, and we will continue to do so, and it will take a great deal of argument to convince us that this setting is not an optimal setting for students academically, socially, emotionally in every way possible. It is a point of pride for us.

I want to point out, with all due respect, Congressman Scott uses the word ``segregates.'' Words are incredibly important. Unfortunately, for everybody around me, I have a linguistics degree, and I am obsessive about them.

To segregate takes a subject that is passive. In essence, the subject of segregation has it put upon them. To choose has a subject that is active. They are distinctly different words, and segregation does not apply to the Thomas J. Pappas School and should not be used.

The children who are here are not committed here. They are not assigned here. They are not here because they are incarcerated here. They are here because their parents choose to put them here.

We can never lose that fact in discussions of Pappas, and I want to go on the record explicitly objecting to the term ``segregation'' as it applies to Thomas J. Pappas. It is a wrong term. It is a false term, and I think we need to move on and talk about other reasons that the kinds of schools that we see for homeless children may or may not be positive, but that is not, in my opinion, a legitimate argument when these choose are of choice.

This is not to suggest, my support for Thomas J. Pappas, that this is the only way we should educate homeless children. I do not believe that. I believe that I personally and our department and the state generally, the education community needs to do a better job of knowing what is in the McKinney Act, what is available for homeless children.

All schools can, should and must accept children who come to them who are homeless, without immunization, without proof of residence. That should be available for every child in every school, and we work to make sure that that is possible.

In our department, in fact, we have assigned, and Congressman, I am going to share this with you; the McKinney Act only gives us about 20 percent of what it would take to assign a person to homelessness. We use money in the department to put somebody full time on making sure that children are aware of their choices through their parents. We tell them what is available, and we tell schools what the law is on homeless children.

Unfortunately, we do have schools that are not aware. When they are advised as to the law and to the requirements and their opportunities, most of them are more than happy to take these children even without immunizations, even without an address.

Schools have had it drummed into them that they cannot accept a child without immunization, and they are very loath to do so. Once they are told it is not a problem, we will do what we can to make sure these children get immunized, but take the child immediately.

We have had very few schools that ever say to us, ``that is not something we can do.'' If they do say it, we inform them that that is actually the wrong answer, and they will do it.

I am of the opinion, and I know the Arizona Congressmen know, that the federal government should be in the business of encouraging educational policies that empower parents to make choices, make choices for their children. Any change in federal policy we are going to consider regarding homeless children should be a change that simply makes it easier for parents to choose.

We give them more information. We give them more support. We provide more people who would guide them through the process of where they might put their children. These children are so precious to us, and their future and their capacity is so important that nothing should matter more than helping parents find a school.

It is almost a heroic act for a homeless parent to put a child in a school in the first place. We congratulate them and we should stand behind them.

I want to talk about what the actual McKinney Act says to us as a state and what they command that we do. It says that we have to assure that we will not isolate children. I take that very seriously, but I take it seriously in real life.

Isolation cannot be solved by simply looking at a piece of paper that says this child comes from here and this child comes from here. So we have a homeless child. We have a child who has a home, and now the child is no longer isolated because we've mixed her up and she's with lots of other kids.

Some of the most painful and dangerous sorts of isolation happen when ostensibly we are surrounded by people. These children are often isolated in the very settings that we say would be best for them because they are different, because people do not know their circumstances, because they do sleep in cars and on the street and in hotels and in places that we would not want our own children for ten minutes, much less for an evening.

That kind of isolation is very hard to overcome, and nobody but the individuals around that child can know if that child is being isolated in what seems to be a fully diverse community. That kind of isolation should not be imposed on a child who cannot handle it, and the only person who knows that that child can handle it is that person's immediate parent or whoever is taking care of that child or the teacher of that child. That decision cannot be made one time in Washington for every child in the country. That is simply not possible.

Oftentimes the kindest, most supportive and most encouraging environment for children is an environment when children can look in another child's eyes and see their own life reflected there. This is what happens at Thomas J. Pappas.

We hope that it is a transition for them. We hope these children do not remain homeless, but we know that for the period of their lives when they are in this circumstance, that there will be few places as supportive and as academically successful as this school.

The question or the answer to where we educate our homeless children is in every public school we have with as many choices as we can make available and as much passion and discipline for the task as we can muster.

Thomas J. Pappas is a school of fantastic quality, passionate staff, impressive academic gain, and a heart for these children, and I beg of you to make changes in the federal law that simply make it easier to have such a place for children to go.

It is a point of pride for Arizona. It is a point of pride for me, and I appreciate the opportunity to speak about it.

Thank you.

WRITTEN STATEMENT OF LISA GRAHAM KEEGAN, SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION, ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, PHOENIX, ARIZONA – SEE APPENDIX B

Chairman Salmon. Mr. Basha.

Mr. Basha. Mr. Chairman, I am sorry that you did not call me first after that very eloquent presentation.

Chairman Salmon, Congressman Scott, Congressman Shadegg, my name is Eddie Basha. I am CEO of Basha's, a family owned Arizona based grocery chain, my avocation. I want to underline that, my avocation.

I am a native Arizonan, and I have been involved in public policy and community service in our state for over 30 years. My particular focus is on education, especially the creation of educational opportunities for underserved and disadvantaged children, my vocation.

I have served on the school board in my hometown of Chandler, on the state Board of Education, and on the Arizona Board of Regents a total of 29 years of service. I tell you this not to impress you with my bona fides, but to place my testimony in the context of someone with more than a casual understanding of the needs and the realities of education in Arizona.

I am here today because I am distressed at the threats that have been made against the Thomas J. Pappas School for Homeless Children and which could conceivably impact on the continuation of this school.

It is certainly not my intention to question the intent of the language of the McKinney Act, nor do I wish to impugn the motives of the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty. I am sure both are well intentioned.

But, Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, to the degree that both of these actions imperil the future of the Pappas School, I believe they are wrong.

I have been personally involved in supporting the Pappas School, as has our company. I have seen first hand the success of the school in providing an educational, social, medical, and personal safe haven for the homeless children of this community and for any act of government or any organization to threaten the ability of the Pappas School to continue to provide these services to the neediest children in our society is an act of cruelty that I can scarcely imagine.

It is suggested that because of its specialized purpose the Pappas School segregates, stigmatizes, and isolates homeless students, thus causing them to be educationally disadvantaged. But, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest to you that perhaps the only time in their lives when these children are not segregated, stigmatized or isolated is when they are on the Pappas School campus attending their school, receiving services in a holistic manner that they would not be likely to receive anywhere else.

The Pappas School concept exists because there is a desperate need for it. The Pappas School succeeds because it meets the myriad needs that these children have, and it meets them in a way that is respectful, is sensitive, is comprehensive, and provides an uplifting period to days that would otherwise likely be none of these things.

Mr. Chairman, the Pappas School serves young people whose needs are so unique that I could not conceive that they would be even remotely met in regular school and regular classroom settings, at least not currently in Arizona with its abominable record of inadequate support for public education.

We do not consider schools for the deaf, schools for the blind to be segregating, isolating, or stigmatizing because they bring together the specialized educated and related services that deaf children or blind children need in order to receive a quality educational opportunity.

Why then should the federal government in a private advocacy agency not be able to recognize that the educational needs of homeless children are in their own way as specialized as the needs of deaf and blind children?

In many respects, homelessness is as severe a handicapping condition as almost any other, and it deserves a specialized treatment commensurate with the needs of these particular students.

Mr. Chairman, I cannot imagine a more grievous wrong that could be inflicted on the homeless children of this community and on their families than for the one institution that has not turned its back on them to be forced by our government to do so.

I believe deeply in our system of government and in the duty of our government to cast that safety net we hear so much about under those who truly need it. If ever there were children who truly need it, it is the homeless children, and if ever there were an institution that not only meets, but also exceeds the concept of an educational and social safety net, it is the Pappas School.

Ideally, Mr. Chairman, these hearings will generate renewed interest in the comprehensive needs of these homeless children and their families. Hopefully, through additional funding of the McKinney Act, as well as additional support at the state and local levels, both public and private, our communities will unite together with aggressive resolve and total commitment to address the plight of homeless children and families in a holistic manner.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the members of your subcommittee for coming to Arizona to hear our concerns.

WRITTEN STATEMENT OF EDDIE BASHA, BASHA'S MARKETS, CHANDLER, ARIZONA – SEE APPENDIX C

Chairman Salmon. Before we get to the questioning, I have a message. If there is a June Johnson in the audience, you have an urgent message. Please see Rosie right here at the door. Thank you.

Thank you both very, very much for being here and for your eloquent testimonies. It is obvious your passion runs deep, both of you, and we in Arizona are very, very fortunate to have two such committed people to the education of our children.

Ms. Keegan and Mr. Basha, either one of you that would be willing to answer this question. Mr. Basha, you brought up the point that nobody really accuses segregation in terms of the schools for the deaf or the blind, but we have examples throughout all of education where children are placed in special type schools depending on the needs of those children.

I think of the magnet schools, the fact that we have a magnet school here in Phoenix dealing with more vocational type education, and kids who have an aptitude and an interest in that area are allowed. They choose to go to these schools, and they thrive and they succeed.

Magnet schools for the fine arts are just another example. I do not hear anybody screaming segregation about that.

I know another debate I have been involved in, bilingual education. They take the children out of the mainstream classrooms; place them in bilingual education in a homogenous type setting, in our state predominantly Hispanic children who do not speak any English. I do not hear anybody screaming segregation about that.

Do you have any thoughts? You know, Lisa, you eloquently talked about the fact that to be segregated it is an act against you. It is something you have no choice and you are forced to do something you do not want to do, and that was the example back in the 1960s in the Brown v. Department of Education.

So I would just like to flesh that out a little bit more. Do you think that or wouldn't you agree, Eddie, you once said to me that teachers have different teaching styles, but children have different learning styles and we ought to be flexible?

I am just interested in what either of you has to say about that.

Mr. Basha. I defer to you.

Ms. Keegan. Congressman Salmon, absolutely what you just said, what you ended with is true. Children have different learning styles. Their parents have a different idea of what they are looking for in a school, and all of the circumstances you mentioned, we embrace those actually in Arizona. We let public charter schools; we encourage them, in fact, to specialize in a particular kind of focus. We do not let them off the hook for the academic standards, nor do we let Thomas J. Pappas off the hook for academic standards. That is what our public education is all about.

So we embrace these choices.

I have to say again ``segregation'' is the wrong word. Segregation has to be done to you. It cannot exist in an environment of choice.

All of the things that you say about schools for the deaf and blind, as Eddie pointed out, schools for the arts, magnet schools are, in fact, the only public schools in the state that can actually select their student body. This school cannot do that. No other public school can do that.

And so to a large extent a magnet school is less open than the Thomas J. Pappas School because not everybody gets to go there. They get to pick their kids in. It does not happen here.

Chairman Salmon. Mr. Basha.

Mr. Basha. Well, Congressman Salmon, I am not sure that I can shed any light on your question. It just seems to me that these young students are being placed as pawns on some kind of philosophical chessboard here, and what I perceive is important is how can we provide holistic education to these students. You know, with the dysfunctional families that many of these come from, with crime and violence and alcoholism and not knowing where to live, it is incumbent upon, in my opinion, those of us in the society to provide a threshold for these students, and I think that threshold is first and foremost in assuring them an educational opportunity, and I think the fact that the Thomas J. Pappas School provides this holistic environment for these children, that where would they get it.

You know, Congressman, that education does not fund, you know, to the extent that other states do. So we have limited resources within our public school facilities, but the Thomas J. Pappas School recognizes this need and provides these needs to these children.

It is a threshold. Ultimately the hope is that they will be transitioned out, but until then, they are getting that holistic kind of sensitive, compassionate treatment in education that I think they need.

Chairman Salmon. Ms. Keegan, could you explain to us what removal of McKinney funds to the state, what kind of an impact that would have on the State of Arizona? And are you concerned at all that it is possible that the Department of Education may remove McKinney funds from this state because of the existence of schools like the Pappas School? I am interested in your thoughts.

Ms. Keegan. Well, Congressman Salmon, my thoughts are that they would be crazy to do that and would not be able to sustain the public outcry should they try.

So, no, I agree with what Mr. Basha has said. They will have to believe that intentions are on the side of right all around here, but when it comes to our defending what is available to our students, we will do everything that we have to do and force those who believe that this is not a great setting for students to come to Arizona, stand right in front of us, and tell us why.

It represents a little over $100 per pupil in the kind of funding that is available if you figure, you know, you have a couple of hundred kids in your school. That can buy you something. That can buy you some support.

What is frightening to me is the tone of the letters that are now coming from the U.S. department, including not just we will eliminate your federal funds, but we will prevent you from using state funds.

Congressmen, you know how I feel about the Tenth Amendment. I see no circumstances under which the federal government has an opportunity to reach into Arizona and tell us which schools we can and cannot fund. The first time I read that in a letter; I believe I came to your office, I saw it this morning. I was not pleased.

I think that we need to call these things out immediately when they happen and ask: who says and under what circumstances and are you kidding? We will not stand by while that happens.

Chairman Salmon. I just have one last question. You stated in your testimony that you believed that the Pappas School is certifiable under the law; that it is in compliance with the law. Could you expand on that?

Ms. Keegan. Congressman Shadegg, and Congressman Salmon, and Congressman Scott, you actually in your comments, Congressman Salmon, talked about the McKinney Act a little bit and the fact that the Department of Education itself is pursuing legislation to change the law in order to be able to eliminate this kind of an opportunity.

I want to have confidence that our congressional delegations across the nation will not participate in such an act, but the fact that they feel they have to change the law in order to act means to me that they know, as we know, that schools like Thomas J. Pappas comport fully with the intention of the McKinney Act; that all public schools must, in fact, participate with the McKinney Act, must welcome homeless children into their schools.

As I said, we needed to do a better job of making sure that all students have access. Congressman Scott makes the excellent point that this school only serves a very small percentage, unfortunately, of the number of homeless children who are in the State of Arizona. So it's incumbent upon all schools to make sure that they have services available.

But we have read, reread, looked at up-ways, down-ways, sideways, the McKinney Act. Everything we know about the Thomas J. Pappas School says to me that this school comports with the law.

Chairman Salmon. Thank you. Congressman Scott.

Mr. Scott. Thank you.

Ms. Keegan, I did not mean to get into a debate over words, particularly with a linguist.

But the word ``segregation'' was used in the H.R. 2, and ``separation,'' certainly maybe we could use that word.

One problem we have is that homelessness is not an aptitude, and it is not a need. All children who are homeless are not involved in crime and violence and that kind of thing.

If we can have a school that addresses needs, then that would not be volatile at all. The problem is that your status of homelessness is the quantifying factor.

You could find a home and still be in need, and a school like this should be able to provide that without the qualifying factor of homelessness.

Mr. Basha, the Pappas School enjoys a lot of private sector support, yours included. Can you tell us what difference that private sector support makes?

Mr. Basha. Well, sir, I can tell you that I received in the mail today some information that this last year the Pappas Foundation provided $300,000 worth of funds to the Pappas School. I think that's a tremendous outpouring of private support for this facility.

Mr. Scott. And what difference did it make?

Mr. Basha. Well, sir, I am not cognizant of that. I cannot answer your question. I think certainly it was_

Mr. Scott. I will ask some others on the next panel. Obviously it would be hard to imagine that that kind of support did not make a major difference.

Mr. Basha. Well, absolutely, but specifically I cannot answer your question. I am sure it went for medical. It went for supplies. It went for clothing. It went, once again, to holistically serve the children that are here.

Mr. Scott. Ms. Keegan, you mentioned you had $400,000 in McKinney funds to serve 4,000 children.

Ms. Keegan. Right.

Mr. Scott. A little quick arithmetic, that is about 100 bucks a child. Is that a sufficient budget, or how does that compare to the marginal cost of educating homeless children with all of the extra challenges that that provides? Can you make a comment on the adequacy of that kind of funding?

Ms. Keegan. Congressman Scott, first of all, Arizona on average is spending about four to $700 per pupil operationally. Arizona's formula is progressive in that we fund students and not particular districts, and so it does not matter where the students would go. The money attaches to those students and that amount of money, depending on special need, et cetera, if there is a special educational need, for example, there's a multiplication factor for the child now, not the district.

So regardless of where these children would go, they would be entitled, if you will, to the same amount of money. So as I am sure you well known, I and any advocates for homeless children will tell you that an extra $100 a year is not enough to cover what it costs. We do rely heavily in all of our public schools on contributions from corporate sector, and we encourage in Arizona direct investment into schools through private tax credits so that we say to people, ``you determine where your tax dollars are going,'' and we encourage them to direct their investments directly into public schools.

They can do that here. They can do it in any public school. So it is a small amount, but as I say, when you multiply that by a couple hundred children it makes a difference.

Mr. Scott. Well, what happens at Pappas that doesn't happen at other schools that would make it advantageous for a student to be here rather than somewhere else?

Ms. Keegan. Well, Mr. Chairman and Congressman Scott, as Mr. Basha has said in his comments, there are a whole host of ancillary services. You speak about homelessness not being a trait in and of itself, and I would grant you that.

However, homelessness has secondary traits. These children are often unhealthy and the school provides them medical care. They often do not have clothes. The school finds them clothes. They often do not have support after school. The school finds them someone to take care of. The school provides attempts to provide an infrastructure the children temporarily do not have.

Mr. Scott. And the other 90 percent of homeless children that go to school somewhere else would be in need of those same services.

Ms. Keegan. Absolutely, Mr. Chairman, Congressman Scott, and oftentimes they are not only entitled to them, but get them. We have a number of public school districts that do provide medical health care on their facilities, that do provide after school care, that are extremely sensitive to the needs of their kids.

Sensitivity to children does not only exist at Thomas J. Pappas. Educators in Arizona across the board are extremely sensitive to this issue. I believe we can always do better, but I cannot make the accusation that schools in Arizona are not attempting to meet this need.

Mr. Scott. If we are developing a national public policy, should the focus of that policy be focused on making sure that the 90 percent of the students who attend mainstream schools get those ancillary services, or does the alternative strategy of establishing separate schools for the homeless divert attention from that and make it less likely that those in the mainstream schools might get those services?

Ms. Keegan. Mr. Chairman, Congressman Scott, I think that is a false choice. Both of those things can and do exist, and we ought to make our investments fully. We ought to make all choices available and make certain that anywhere a child would choose through the choice of their parents to be at school is going to be a great choice for that child. I do not think we ought to be pitting facilities like this against the rest of public education.

Mr. Basha. Congressman Scott, may I just post script what Superintendent Keegan said? In our own Chandler District, sir, we have a school that provides holistic programs for our children, and it is only anecdotal when I share this with you.

I was talking with the nurse and the doctor last year about a child that was brought in after school for medical care, and the child had a horrible ear infection, and the doctor took care of it, and on the way out, the nurse said to the grandmother, ``Well, what would you have done had the doctor not been here?''

And the person said, ``well, as usual, we would have taken a stick and we would have poked the ear with a stick.''

So I tell you this because there are schools around Arizona, only to substantiate what the Superintendent says; there are schools around this state that are providing needs to our students, but it is, as she said, a matter of choice. This is one choice.

There are choices throughout Arizona, but this is a very fine choice in my humble opinion.

Ms. Keegan. Thank you.

Chairman Salmon. Thank you. I wanted to also maybe piggyback on the question about how influential the private sector funds are to this organization and what the differences are, how much it impacts. The chief difference is that 100 percent of the private sector funds go here to Pappas to the children as opposed to when it comes from Washington they get a fraction of the money; pennies on the dollar. So, that is one difference.

The other difference is they have the flexibility to spend it according to the needs of the families and not some dictate out of Washington.

Congressman Shadegg.

Mr. Shadegg. Thank you very much.

Let me start with health quickly. So we are going to key in, your department encourages and advises all schools in the State of Arizona as a result of McKinney that they have to accept and educate homeless children; is that right?

Ms. Keegan. We welcomed that law, Congressman Shadegg.

Mr. Shadegg. And you try to keep schools apprised of that, and if they say, ``Wait a minute. Where is his or her immunization?'' you deal with those issues and make sure those kids get in.

Ms. Keegan. That is correct.

Mr. Shadegg. And there is no requirement that any child who attends the Thomas J. Pappas School must go here. They have the right if they choose to go to their neighborhood or community school.

Ms. Keegan. Absolutely.

Mr. Shadegg. I want to understand one point you made because I thought it was excellent. We are, I am sure, going to get into a lengthy discussion about performance later, and as I understood your testimony, you said clearly that you are not aware of any study which shows that measured against their own starting point, homeless children who attend a neighborhood school do better than homeless children who attend a specialized school for homeless children; is that right?

Ms. Keegan. That is correct. There has been no such study, so far as I am concerned or have ever been made aware of.

Mr. Shadegg. One quick point, and correct me if I am wrong about this, but at least to a certain degree, Arizona is in the lead in allowing private support for all schools, are we not, in the sense that Mr. Scott focused on private sector support for this school. The reality is that Arizona has adopted a very far looking policy that says any family in America that wants to support a private school _ excuse me _ a public school, whether it is their neighborhood school or one 50 miles away or 200 miles away may do so with private dollars. Isn't that correct?

Ms. Keegan. Right, any family in Arizona Congressman, not America. Although, that would be great because then we would have all of that money available for Arizona public schools.

Mr. Shadegg. Well, I would just like you to know I would like it to be as to_

Ms. Keegan. Exactly. You and I were sharing a thought.

That is absolutely right. Arizona's tax credit law encourages families to make up to a $200 donation to any public school of their choice, and that is rebated dollar per dollar to them in their income tax, correct.

Mr. Shadegg. The last part I want to conclude with is to your knowledge, and as a matter of fact, there has been no change in the law on the issue of funding of the Thomas J. Pappas School. What there has been is a change in the policy of the Department of Education.

Ms. Keegan. Mr. Chairman, Congressman Shadegg that is exactly right. I do not know how this all originated, but, yes, changes in the tenor of the language used by officials at the Department of Education, changed in suggesting that perhaps a new interpretation is on the horizon, but Congressman Shadegg, that is not the result of any change in the law that we are aware of.

Mr. Shadegg. They are trying to pressure you into cutting off funds for this school without being able to point to a change in the language that the Congress enacted.

Ms. Keegan. Mr. Chairman, Congressman Shadegg, I think they would object to the term that they are trying to pressure us to cut off funds. I would tell you _

Mr. Shadegg. Let them object. They did not show.

Ms. Keegan. I will tell you, number one, that will not be successful, and secondly, I think they are heartily encouraging school chiefs, such as myself, to consider cutting funding off from facilities like this, and I would likewise encourage my colleagues across the nation not to do it.

Mr. Shadegg. Great. Good for you.

I will be formal here because it is a formal hearing. Mr. Basha, I was thrilled by your remark that the only place that a homeless child may not feel stigmatized is here at the Thomas J. Pappas School, and I would wholeheartedly agree with that.

You also say in your testimony that the Thomas J. Pappas School exists because there is a desperate need for it. We just heard an exchange over the issue of the 90 percent versus the ten percent.

If the Thomas J. Pappas were closed as a result of a change in public policy by the United States Congress, then it is true, of course, that none of those 90 percent of children who are homeless and in some other school would have even the option of going to school where they did not feel stigmatized, would they?

Mr. Basha. Congressman, I am not sure that I can answer that question. I think it depends upon the school and how the school addresses and respects those students. I think that is what is paramount. That would be my response.

Mr. Shadegg. Let me ask another question because I have difficulty with this. We seem to be talking about homeless children having the ability to go to their neighborhood school or their community school as if that were kind of just a norm. Of course, they could go to a neighborhood school rather than a specialized school like Thomas J. Pappas, but by definition if you are homeless, what_and maybe you are not the right person to ask this, though I thought your comments about the need and the stigmatization would go to this issue_if you are a homeless child and in one week or one day you are sleeping at 59th Avenue and Glendale and the next week or the next day you are sleeping at Rural and Guadalupe or some place out in the East Valley and the third day you are sleeping or the third week you are sleeping at Van Buren and 16th Street, which neighborhood school is it that you are supposed to go and get sufficient_

Mr. Basha. I think that that begs two questions. I think the first is, Congressman Shadegg, how many homeless students are not going to school, but because of mobility and because of other factors that we have already discussed? I think that is a critical question.

And the second question is, as you say, many of these students do not know where to go, and if I could quote you the adage, instead of moving Mohammed to the mountain, we are moving the mountain to Mohammed, and I think that is what the Thomas J. Pappas School does. It goes out and seeks these students in a demonstrable way, in a comprehensive way, in a respectful way.

Mr. Shadegg. Thank you very much.

Chairman Salmon. Thank you very much.

We will go to the second panel.

Chairman Salmon. We will go ahead and convene.

I would like to introduce, first, in the middle of the panel here and the kind of center of attention today is Dr. Sandra Dowling, who is the Superintendent of Public Instruction for Maricopa County School System.

Chairman Salmon. And if it were not for Dr. Dowling, this school would not exist. She is the one that had the vision, the foresight, the passion to develop this school many, many years ago. In fact, I think that if it had a second name besides the Thomas J. Pappas, it would be called the Sandra Dowling School.

So we are really, proud to have you here today, too, and very honored.

I will go ahead and start at the other end of the table, too. We have Ms. Edith Sims. She is the facilitator of the Homeless Education Program for Spokane Public Schools in Washington, D.C. Oh, excuse me. Washington. I have this D.C. thing on the mind. I am sorry. It is a Freudian slip, I am sure.

Let me move to Dr. Luisa Stark, who is the chair of the Phoenix Consortium to End Homelessness.

Next is Mr. Walter Varner, who is the President of the National Association for the Education of Homeless Children and Youth.

Next, we have Ms. Garfield, Sara Garfield. She is the founder and Executive Director of St. Mary's Interfaith Transitional Learning Center in Stockholm, California.

We have Mr. Bacon. Mr. Bacon is a former graduate of the Thomas J. Pappas School, is currently a student at Phoenix College. Great.

Chairman Salmon. It is Chuck Bacon. Excuse me.

Thank you, Mr. Scott.

Then finally, we have Ms. Tammy Wells, who is the mother of four children, and you deserve a Medal of Honor for that in and of itself, and a supporter of the Thomas J. Pappas School. So, we would like to thank our distinguished panelists for being here today, and I would like to start with Dr. Dowling.

Dr. Dowling. Thank you, Congressman Salmon, members of the committee.

I would like to thank you for the opportunity to discuss the issues regarding the education of children who are homeless. There are three major topics I would like to place before you. They include the history of the Thomas J. Pappas Elementary School, a school known nationally as an exemplary model for these children.

Next, I would like to discuss the fallacy concerning the advantages of mainstreaming students.

Finally, I want to discuss the virtue of local control of education policy.

The Pappas Elementary School is providing the most progressive, reform minded, elementary education in the United States. The school is complete with both educational and social services. The school's social service program is entirely funded by the private sector. Corporations, small businesses, government, and private sector employees, community service organizations, retirees and local high school students provide financial resources and volunteer services that are unduplicated anywhere.

Our school is the perfect model for improving the imperfect lives of innocent victims, homeless children. For many years, the word ``homeless'' meant the dirty, grungy people sleeping on the grounds of the old Carnegie Library at 12th Street in Washington.

Maricopa County and the City of Phoenix established a temporary shelter forcing our community to develop a realization of homelessness. Then, to the surprise of many, the unfortunate and innocent victims of homelessness, the children, were discovered.

Neighborhood schools in the downtown Phoenix area were under pressure to find classroom space for the children of their taxpaying residents. Local shelters had attempted to enroll their students in these neighborhood schools only to find resistance.

After continual rejection, the shelter staff decided to halt any attempts to enroll children in the neighborhood public school. Instead, they began offering their own program. At this moment in history, as newly elected county school Superintendent, I became involved with the Phoenix fire fighters, the Episcopal Diocese of Phoenix, the Central Arizona Shelter Services, and several private individuals in an attempt to make a difference in the lives of these innocent victims.

A one-room schoolhouse began in donated space provided by the Episcopal Diocese of Phoenix at Trinity Cathedral, staffed by the regional school district and with local fire fighters as classroom volunteers and mentors.

The Thomas J. Pappas Elementary School for Homeless Children was born. While not exactly in a manger, it was definitely a miracle in progress.

Shelter staff insured me that the maximum enrollment at any one time would never be more than 25 students. Within a month, there were 50 students. Another facility was identified and renovation began.

A new shelter at an old model in the seediest part of Phoenix allowed us to use the former front desk and office area for classrooms. The junior high program was located in the area that was once the motel bar.

As enrollment continued escalating to the staggering proportions of nearly 150 students, the school was forced to relocate for a fourth time in less than three years. A former automobile dealership that had just finished serving, as the Pastor for Congress Committee headquarters was available.

After remodeling, the school would be able to serve 330 children. The following year the school was dangerously close to capacity again. After two years of negotiations in a community fund-raising project that netted over $1.8 million, the current Thomas J. Pappas School for homeless children was a reality. Its capacity was 550 children.

During the second year in the new facility, over 700 students greeted the teachers and staff. Again, there was a wild scramble to find space for the overflow of students. Once more, we turned to an ecclesiastical partner, the Presbyterian Church one block away.

The junior high students were sent to the church instead of to the bar this time. Currently we have relocated back to the car dealership building for our 300 junior high and high school students. Additional classroom space has been added for this school year at the main campus, increasing our capacity here to 700 students.

The school year 2000-2001 projected enrollment is estimated to be 1,000 students on these two campuses. In addition, by the end of the 2000 calendar year, it is anticipated that we will open another site with another ecclesiastical partner, the Catholic Diocese.

Initially the Tempe site will host approximately 100 children. This is a capsulated history of the Thomas J. Pappas Program.

The Pappas Program does not recognize the value of mainstreaming children for the sake of political correctness. The enrollment at Pappas Elementary School is limited to children that qualify for admission using the criteria established by the Stuart B. McKinney Act. Neighborhood children, unless they meet this criterion, cannot attend.

Some social welfare advocates believe that all children attending school should be mainstreamed. Mainstreaming is an educational term that forces social engineering within our public schools. Although an interesting idea, it does not allow for individual differences or community involvement. Instead, this concept homogenizes everyone into a mold that is perceived to represent the ideal, but in reality reflects a nightmare.

The staff of Pappas School are experts in assisting homeless families. Many homeless parents believe the outreach staff is their only advocate when dealing with the social welfare system.

The Pappas staff provides more than an occasional food basket or kind word. These dedicated individuals are always ready to help. Yes, Mr. Congressman, they could provide you with a sheltering place to stay tonight if you needed one, as long as you met the criteria of the McKinney Act.

Forcing the public school system to provide such assistance would be an impossible challenge even for the most well-meaning public school counselor. In most public schools, the student counselor is a generalist. To the extent, public schools are able to address homeless issues; they can only act as facilitators, not experts.

Mainstreaming is not a panacea for the problems these children face. In fact, some educational researchers now believe that mainstreaming is having a negative effect on classroom performance. Those associated with Pappas Elementary School believe that if McKinney Act funds were invested exclusively on creating exemplary schools like the one you see here today, you with your individual vote would make a greater difference in the lives of many children.

Finally, I cannot let these hearings end without making a strong statement for local control. Education in general has been either the victim or the beneficiary of local control. Some people believe the system of local schools with local school boards is obsolete. However, the principle that the government closest to the individual works best has been a long held tenet of the American tradition.

In communist countries, the schools are upheld as models. They are lionized because of their presumed efficient use of resources. In reality though, look at what their efficiency brought. In most of these countries, liberty was lacking. Local decision-making was absent, and the economic forces were unable to insure their comrades with the satisfactory standard of living.

Over the long term, central planning and control proved to be the downfall of the Soviet system. On the other hand, traditional local control provides the mechanism that prohibits government and its institutions from falling down the slippery slope that ended communism as an economic system.

Interjecting federal rules and local government decision-making has a tendency to exacerbate problems rather than provide a universal solution. The obvious lesson of the 20th century has been that local decision-making works best at solving local problems.

There is no single solution. The Pappas Program has its financial problems. Additional money would certainly be helpful. However, our state on its own is also addressing some of these dollar and cent issues.

Arizona is providing additional money for teacher salaries and school counselors. The State of Arizona will fund the next building needed for the Pappas Project without federal participation.

The business community is raising additional dollars for us to hire another outreach worker and a music teacher. The City of Phoenix Parks and Recreation Department with local dollars is providing an after school program for our students. All of these efforts are partnerships.

I believe the committee should focus its efforts on stimulating these same types of partnerships rather than increasing sanctions and regulations.

In Phoenix, Arizona, we know the Pappas model works. Rather than wasting time and effort in the philosophical battle over the methods of instructional delivery, it would be in the children's best interest to work together in providing additional resources to meet their needs.

Partnerships should be encouraged and individual initiative rewarded.

Thank you.

I would like to thank you very much for coming to the Thomas J. Pappas Elementary School and providing us the opportunity to discuss this most important issue of educating homeless children.

Thank you.

WRITTEN STATEMENT OF DR. SANDRA E. DOWLING, SUPERINTENDENT, MARICOPA COUNTY SCHOOLS, PHOENIX, ARIZONA – SEE APPENDIX D

Chairman Salmon. Thank you.

Ms. Sims. Members of the subcommittee, thank you for the invitation to speak to you today.

In 1989, a separate school to serve homeless children in Spokane, Washington began in a one-room schoolhouse at the YWCA staffed by teachers from Spokane Public Schools. I taught second, third, and fourth grades at that school.

It was a magical place. We felt absolutely passionate about our students, recognizing their very special needs physically, emotionally, and academically. During the 1998-99 school year, our district chose to move to an integrated model. Several factors led to this change.

First, there was a concern that despite all of the wonderful social services that were being offered to our families, educational curriculum was not aligned with the rest of our district, thus actually placing our homeless children further at risk for future school success.

Secondly, we had heard about successful integrated models nationwide. It made sense, and it seemed best for children to devise a model that supported the homeless children within the normal school environment while continuing to build in support services for families. We in Spokane wanted the best of both worlds.

Personally, I wept for two weeks as we began the task force to design the new model. It was terrifying and difficult to give a known model up for a model that for us was untried.

The new integrated model has far exceeded our expectations. Our community has continued to embrace us with their support. By utilizing the wonderful collaborative connections that were already established, we are still able to provide each student in our program with backpacks filled with school supplies, new clothing and new shoes to begin their school.

In addition, we still have the medical clinic, which makes recommendations to dental and vision and domestic violence counselors housed at the YWCA.

Because school staffs have now been educated to look for and identify the issues and needs of homeless children, our numbers jumped from 134 children the previous year to 339 children served last year. Of those 339 children, 217 of those children were able to remain in their school of origin with the support of our integrated team.

Teachers expressed delight to have support to be able to keep their kids. Kyle was a fourth grader referred to us by his school counselor the third week of school in September. He had been in 11 different schools, grade kindergarten through third. A thorough research of his transcripts also revealed large gaps where we strongly suspect that he was not in school at all.

With the support from the new model, Kyle was able to remain in one school the entire school year even though his mother couch served or moved 11 separate times. Because Kyle was stabilized in our school, the inappropriate behaviors that he was very obviously displaying could be corrected, and it was determined that Kyle also had something organically wrong. We discovered that Kyle was nearly deaf in both ears.

After the hearing aids were installed, Kyle's teacher reported to us that he had come to them and said, ``I can hear now, and I'm being good. I want to be a crossing guard.''

I believe it is also important here to point out that the new model also assisted Kyle's mother. Our team also has on it a social worker through the YWCA and a mental health professional supplied to us by a three-year grant by the City of Spokane.

The social worker assisted Kyle's mother with drug treatment and training and allowed the family to stabilize. Kyle and his family will be starting his second year in the same school for the first time in those children's lives. I know for a fact that this family would have been missed in the pullout separate model.

Another surprise that we had in Spokane was the number of schools where we discovered homeless children. We had expected to find children in nine to 11 schools. Instead, we served children in 36 different school sites last year.

Integrated models can and do work. I have attached copies to my testimony of other successful models. In addition to the other services that I have already mentioned, we offer one on one tutor mentors to assist students at their neighborhood schools, and we have homework centers in two of our largest shelters already up and running, staffed by a local university.

We also have plans that the rest of our shelters that serve homeless children will be in place this fall staffed again by universities within our City of Spokane.

Strong integrated models can be extremely empowering for homeless children. We served 339 children last year, 339 children that were allowed to be stabilized, stabilized within a normal school environment, that allowed them to take band and music lessons. They took baseball and basketball. They joined computer clubs.

I enjoy walking through our schools in our district and seeing the children that are involved with our program. They blend in well. Our children consider themselves Glover Falcons, Stephens Eagles, or Fair Saxons, not homeless.

Thank you.

WRITTEN STATEMENT OF EDITH SIMS, EDUCATION SPECIALIST,

SPOKANE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, SPOKANE, WASHINGTON – SEE APPENDIX E

Chairman Salmon. Thank you. If we can next go to Ms. Garfield.

Ms. Garfield. Thank you to the Congressmen, and I am happy to be here basically on behalf of all of the rest of the 40 schools in the United States that are considered to be segregated and isolated sites.

And, I think I can speak for my colleagues. I know many of them. Some of them are here today, that in a better world we would all be happy to close our doors, and if the public schools could provide for our children all of the services that we provide in our schools, we would be more than happy to be sending our children to these public schools.

But unfortunately, the public schools seem to be unable in our community especially to provide many of the minimum services. Our school provides extensive counseling services with three therapists for 80 children. Our public schools in our community have one counselor for eight to 900 children.

We have a ratio of one teacher to every five children because we use students from California State University, Stanislaus, who are trained interns and student teachers who work in our program.

We have health services on site, medical clinic, dental clinic, showers, and clothing. We can provide the children the services that they so desperately need while they're in transition, and until they can receive those services in every public school that they go to throughout our community, we feel very uncomfortable about sending the children off to the public schools without that support.

We are called the Transitional Learning Center, and that is our focus, to provide these extensive and intensive services for the children while they are in transition. As soon as our families get into permanent housing, we have mentor advocates that take the children to the new school, get them registered, and follow them up for at least a month visiting once a week, helping the new teacher and the child to make the transition into their new public school.

We are a collaborative program with the county Office of Education, California State University, Stanislaus, and St. Mary's Interfaith Dining Room, which is the day facility that provides all of the services I mentioned.

We also collaborate with 20 other organizations at least in our community that provide additional volunteer support, funding, field trips, et cetera.

In response to a letter that was in our local Stockton Record regarding the potential closure of our school if this legislation passed, we received 350 letters to Senator Diane Feinstein in support of the school, and I would just like to share with you what Senator Feinstein said in part of her letter.

``I support the Transitional Learning Center. It provides an invaluable service to many homeless children. Every child is entitled to a quality education, and I admire the TLC for providing homeless students with solid instruction, emphasizing the core subjects in literacy. I do not support taking federal funding away from schools for homeless children, and I will work to insure excellent educational opportunities for all students.''

But what it is really all about is the children. So I think I would just like to share a couple of stores about a few of our children because whenever I go anywhere, in my mind I bring the children with me, and that is why we are there.

And one little gal that comes to mind, her name is Michelle, and when we enrolled her on the first day of school, she said that in her last school they had been homeless and living in a car. So, her parents were very industrious. They parked the car in front of the best school in our community because they wanted their children to go to the best school.

Michelle went to that school, and on the playground the children encircled her and threw rocks and sand at her and called her ``Stinky,'' and she said to me, ``You know, Ms. Sara, I know I smelled. I was living in my car. I know my clothes were dirty, torn and ragged. We were living in a car, but we wanted to go to school.''

She said she felt humiliated. She never felt safe, and one day she wrote me a letter and said in the note, she said, ``you know, TLC makes me feel like I belong. It makes me feel comfortable. It enables me to ask for what I need without feeling embarrassed that I do not have any underwear on or that I need a shower or that I have lice or that I need medical or dental care.''

That is why we are there, to provide for these children while they are in such transition. Many of our children would be in nine schools in one year if every time they moved they had to enroll in their new neighborhood school.

Now, granted the law says that the child can stay in their school of origin, but there is no transportation provided. So, when you are looking at a community of 20 miles and the family cannot get the child back to the school of origin, they end up going from school to school or in most cases not going to school at all.

The children come to us with incredible psychological problems. They are in grief. They have faced situations that many of us do not want to even talk about or think about, but our teachers know and understand where those children are coming from. They are able to recognize the sights and signs of the children when they are having emotional problems, and we are better equipped to deal with them.

And I would like to tell you a story about a little guy named Seraphine that I think so poignantly points that message out. He was behaving very strange in his class, and his teacher knew that there was something wrong.

Of course, oftentimes our homeless children in a regular public school with 32 other children in the classroom, the teacher does not realize what is going on, does not know that child is homeless, does not know why they are behaving like that, and therefore, just assumes that they are having bad behavior.

So, our teacher sent Seraphine to our therapist. We are fortunate enough to have a form of sand trait therapy to work with the children that produces incredible results where the children take figurines and they tell their story by playing in the sand.

Too often children that are abused and physically neglected are told not to tell. ``Don't you dare tell what's going on at home at school.'' So, by being able to play and act out their problems and their fears in the sand trait therapy, they reveal to us very quickly what is going on in their lives.

And Seraphine said to our counselor in the process of his play therapy, he said, ``You know, I want to be an astronaut when I grow up.'' He said, ``I love the costume.'' And he said, ``You know, I used to have a telescope, but last night my dad came home drunk, and he saw my telescope, and he took it,'' and he said, ``I knew he was going to take my telescope and beat my mom.'' That is what had happened to the child the evening before. He witnessed his father beat his mother with his prized possession, his telescope.

Then he said afterwards, he said, ``I took the telescope. When my dad left, I took the telescope and I broke it into many pieces and threw it away so my dad could never hurt my mom again.''

Then he looked at our therapist and said, ``that is the last time I'll see the moon.'' And to me that is what this is all about. It is about the Seraphims and the Michelles and the other children that come to us with such needs and wants and desires and so eager to learn and be at school. Yes, they have a choice, and no, we are not forcing them to be there, but they need the medical care, the dental care, the clothing, and the showers. They need to be able to eat three breakfasts on Monday morning if they are that hungry.

They need to feel safe and comfortable and say, ``I do not have any underwear on. Can I please get some underwear? I do not have shoes.''

They need to be able to ask for what they want, to be given what they need without feeling humiliated or demeaned. They need to have an extensive testing done on each child, which we do on their first three days, so that we find out exactly where they are and fill in the gaps in their education because our kids our bright and they are eager and they love to learn. They just have not been in school long enough, and there are too many gaps in their education.

So, they need the intensive diagnostic, prescriptive approach that enables us to do small group instruction, working on the skills that are lacking in their education, and then help them get caught up so that when they move back into the public school system, they are able to function.

I am proud to say that we pre and post test our children at 60 days and 90 days. Last spring, 92 percent of our children showed one to two years' growth in reading, word recognition, and comprehension in 60 to 90 days, and that is due, I believe, to the intensive and extensive services that we are able to provide.

I do not know of one public school in our community that does not want our children. They would be happy to serve them, but most say, ``we cannot provide for these children what you are providing for them.''

We received for three years $120,000 of McKinney funds, and that enabled us to provide extensive services to over 350 children each year. If that money were distributed throughout the entire county, each child may receive one service for the whole year.

We lost our McKinney funds within this last granting cycle, which we just found out in August and do not know at this point. As of October 1, we are $120,000 short in our budget, but we have been told by our community members that they will go out in the community and raise the funds if that is what it takes to keep continuing to provide these services to these children.

So in closing, I guess I would just like to say that to the U.S. Department of Education, when is the last time that any of you taught in an inner city school or worked with our children or understand the constraints that the teachers face and the issues that the children bring to school with them?

And I wish that they and the National Law and Poverty Center and the Coalition would come and visit all our schools and look and see what we are doing right and help us look and see what we could be doing better and work with us. We could all work together to improve the education because it is all about the kids, and I think that is why everybody is here today.

Thank you.

WRITTEN STATEMENT OF SARA GARFIELD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ST. MARY'S INTERFAITH TRANSITIONAL LEARNING CENTER, STOCKTON, CALIFORNIA – SEE APPENDIX F

Mr. Bacon. Hello. My name is Chuck Bacon. I am here to give you guys my testimony as a student.

I attended Pappas for four years. I am currently a freshman at Phoenix College.

My answers to the four questions to which I am asked to respond to are based on my personal experience as a former student at the time that my family was homeless. Each question deals with a specific aspect of educating homeless students and I have answered with the honesty, integrity, and the perspective of someone who has been there. I hope the testimony makes a difference in the lives of future Pappas students.

Okay. On that note, let's go to the next one. Thank you.

What is the difference between Pappas Schools and other mainstream schools? One of the differences between the Pappas School and other mainstream schools is that the Pappas staff expects the unexpected. The students are not expected to adapt to the school. The school is expected to adapt to the students' needs.

For example, homeless students move frequently, sometimes daily, and mainstream schools do not generally have the capacity to change bus schedules quickly. At Pappas, bus stop adjustments can be made to respond to the address changes as they occur.

At mainstream schools, bus schedules are handled at the district office. At Pappas, there is a person whose job it is to adjust the schedule, sometimes many times during the day as families move around.

Another difference between Pappas and other schools is the attendance boundary. The Pappas attendance boundary is the entire area of Maricopa County, and Maricopa County mobility problems are compounded for homeless children because with the county there are more than 40 local school districts, each with their own boundary.

In the downtown area alone, there are seven or eight districts very close to Pappas School. As a consequence of these local districts having their own attendance boundaries, one district bus will not cross over into another district to pick up another student who has moved overnight. Since the Pappas bus passes through many districts, students at Pappas are not faced with the change in schools every time they move, provided they stay in Maricopa County.

Another major difference between Pappas and other schools is the support they give through food boxes, clean clothing, and an on-site medical clinic. Many homeless students come to school hungry, having slept in their clothes and having many health problems. At Pappas, six children are treated by a pediatrician or nurse in a medical clinic located at the school. Students are given clean clothes that are donated to the school so that s