SPEAKERS CONTENTS INSERTS
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45–717 CC
1998
FOREIGN RELATIONS AUTHORIZATION BILL
MARKUP
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITEE ON INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS AND HUMAN RIGHTS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON
INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FIFTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
0N
H.R. 1253
APRIL 10, 1997
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Printed for the use of the Committee on International Relations
COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, New York, Chairman
WILLIAM GOODLING, Pennsylvania
JAMES A. LEACH, Iowa
HENRY J. HYDE, Illinois
DOUG BEREUTER, Nebraska
CHRISTOPHER SMITH, New Jersey
DAN BURTON, Indiana
ELTON GALLEGLY, California
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida
CASS BALLENGER, North Carolina
DANA ROHRABACHER, California
DONALD A. MANZULLO, Illinois
EDWARD R. ROYCE, California
PETER T. KING, New York
JAY KIM, California
STEVEN J. CHABOT, Ohio
MARSHALL ''MARK'' SANFORD, South Carolina
MATT SALMON, Arizona
AMO HOUGHTON, New York
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TOM CAMPBELL, California
JON FOX, Pennsylvania
JOHN McHUGH, New York
LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina
ROY BLUNT, Missouri
JERRY MORAN, Kansas
KEVIN BRADY, Texas
LEE HAMILTON, Indiana
SAM GEJDENSON, Connecticut
TOM LANTOS, California
HOWARD BERMAN, California
GARY ACKERMAN, New York
ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American Samoa
MATTHEW G. MARTINEZ, California
DONALD M. PAYNE, New Jersey
ROBERT ANDREWS, New Jersey
ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey
SHERROD BROWN, Ohio
CYNTHIA A. McKINNEY, Georgia
ALCEE L. HASTINGS, Florida
PAT DANNER, Missouri
EARL HILLIARD, Alabama
WALTER CAPPS, California
BRAD SHERMAN, California
ROBERT WEXLER, Florida
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STEVE ROTHMAN, New Jersey
BOB CLEMENT, Tennessee
BILL LUTHER, Minnesota
JIM DAVIS, Florida
RICHARD J. GARON, Chief of Staff
MICHAEL H. VAN DUSEN, Democratic Chief of Staff
Subcommittee on International Operations and Human Rights
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey, Chairman
WILLIAM F. GOODLING, Pennsylvania
HENRY J. HYDE, Illinois
DAN BURTON, Indiana
CASS BALLENGER, North Carolina
PETER T. KING, New York
MATT SALMON, Arizona
LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida
TOM LANTOS, California
CYNTHIA A. McKINNEY, Georgia
GARY L. ACKERMAN, New York
ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American Samoa
DONALD M. PAYNE, New Jersey
EARL F. HILLIARD, Alabama
ROBERT WEXLER, Florida
GROVER JOSEPH REES, Subcommittee Staff Director and Chief Counsel
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ROBERT R. KING, Democratic Professional Staff Member
DOUGLAS C. ANDERSON, Counsel
ELISE M. KENDERIAN, Staff Associate
C O N T E N T S
APPENDIX
H.R. 1253, Foreign Relations Authorization Bill
Amendment to H.R. 1253, offered by Mr. Christopher H. Smith, Chairman, Committee on International Operations and Human Rights
Amendment to H.R. 1253, offered by Ms. Cynthia A. McKinney, a Representative in Congress from Georgia
Amendment to H.R. 1253, offered by Mr. Earl F. Hilliard, a Representative in Congress from Alabama
MARKUP OF THE FISCAL YEAR 1998–1999 FOREIGN
RELATIONS AUTHORIZATION BILL
THURSDAY, APRIL 10, 1997
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on International Operations and Human Rights,
Committee on International Relations,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 1:15 p.m., in room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Christopher H. Smith (chairman of the Subcommittee) presiding.
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Mr. SMITH. The Subcommittee will come to order. I am very pleased to convene this meeting of the Subcommittee on International Operations and Human Rights, pursuant to notice, in open session for the purpose of marking up H.R. 1253, The Foreign Relations Authorization Act for Fiscal Years 1998 and 1999.
I believe this bill is a solid, thoughtful product, the result of bipartisan co-operation. We fund most programs at or near the Administration's budget request. For instance, the three principal State Department accounts are funded at $2.284 billion in Fiscal Year 1998. This is 7.5 percent higher than actual spending on these items in Fiscal Year 1995, and is 99 percent of the level requested by the Administration. On a few items of compelling importance, such as refugee protection, the World Food Program, assistance to torture victims, and combatting international child labor, the bill provides a modest increase above the Administration request.
Like our Subcommittee, this bill is not only about international operations, it is also about human rights. Every structural and fiscal decision has been taken with an eye toward preserving core humanitarian programs, saving lives, and promoting the just interests of the American people.
While providing adequate funding for foreign relations programs, the bill also attempts to improve efficiency, transparency, and accountability in these programs. It puts the State Department's fee accounts ''on budget''—an important reform suggested by the Administration which will require further legislation from the Budget Committee as well as the provisions contained in this bill—so that the funding will reflect workload. It also restores the power of the Secretary of State to terminate the employment of convicted felons, a power that has been inexplicably curtailed by the administrative grievance board.
Other provisions we had hoped to include will have to wait for Full Committee markup of this bill or for consideration of the bill by the full House.
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In particular, we had hoped to provide a comprehensive U.N. reform package as part of a comprehensive settlement of the arrearages question. We have not yet been able to secure agreements on this provision among the Administration and Republican and Democratic Members of both houses of Congress. This bill does, however, provide $100 million in arrearage payments for Fiscal Year 1998, in anticipation of an agreement on a reform package within the very near future. If a reform agreement is reached—and if it addresses the real concerns of the American people, not only with respect to financial and institutional integrity but also with respect to national sovereignty and the alarming increase in international ''social engineering'' by U.N.-affiliated organizations and conferences—then I believe this installment, and perhaps another for Fiscal Year 1999, will be appropriate. If, on the other hand, there is no real U.N. reform, the arrearages will be dead on arrival on the House floor. Indeed, if we do not get these reforms I will offer the amendment myself to strip out the arrearage payment. Nevertheless, we have included it at this stage as a token of good faith and of commitment to work for a comprehensive solution.
We also hope that by the time the bill reaches the House floor the Secretary of State and the Senate Foreign Relations Committee will have reached agreement on a plan for consolidating many of the functions of our foreign policy institutions. And we are working with Committee Members from both parties to fashion an amendment to be offered in the Full Committee that will address the issue of staff duplication and lines of authority between USIA and the Board of Broadcasting Governors.
Any such provision will be calculated to provide the maximum protection for the integrity of our broadcasting services which have been so important in promoting freedom and democracy around the world.
Mr. SMITH. I would like to, at this point, yield to my very good friend, Mr. Lantos, the Ranking Member of the Committee, and thank him in advance, because he and his staff director, Bob King—worked very, very closely with Joseph Rees, our staff director for the Subcommittee, and others—such as Kristen Gilley with the Full Committee—to try to work out many of the problems so that we could be where we are right now, in marking up this bill.
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Mr. Lantos.
Mr. LANTOS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me first explain that, in an adjacent hearing room, the Burton Committee is meeting and I am on that Committee and I may be called away for a vote, for which I want to apologize in advance.
First of all, Mr. Chairman, I want to commend you and the Members of the Republican staff for your efforts on this bill. More important than the bill, however, I want to commend you for the way in which both you and your staff have worked to develop this legislation. You worked in a cooperative and bipartisan manner to fashion this bill, and I strongly welcome this effort.
As I have said on so many occasions, the most successful and best U.S. foreign policy initiatives are always within the framework of a bipartisan foreign policy in which Democrats and Republicans work together in the best interests of our nation. I am grateful for your willingness to include in this bill provisions that are of deep concern to me and to make changes in provisions that I think will avoid problems for us in the future.
I would like to acknowledge the efforts that have been made by the Republican and Democratic staff members of the Committee, the Subcommittee and the Full Committee. On the Republican side, Joseph Rees, the majority counsel of the Subcommittee; Doug Anderson, of the Subcommittee staff; and Kristen Gilley and Hillel Weinberg, of the Full Committee staff.
On the Democratic side, I want to thank Elaina Brotman, of the Democratic Full Committee; and, most particularly, Dr. Bob King, the minority staff director of this Subcommittee.
Let me say at the outset, Mr. Chairman, that this legislation is of enormous importance for U.S. foreign policy. While many of the provisions deal with the routine nuts-and-bolts issues of operating the Department of State or USIA, in fact, this bill deals with the issue of how we allocate the critical resources necessary for the conduct of our nation's international relations. The bill contains a number of technical provisions, many of them requested by the Department of State and other foreign policy agencies.
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I welcome your efforts to work with me and with my staff and with the Administration in finding good solutions to many of these matters.
There are several major issues that this legislation deals with only peripherally that are extremely important. I want to make a comment about those. First of all is the matter of the resources necessary to conduct our nation's foreign affairs.
As Secretary Madeleine Albright has said, ''You cannot conduct foreign policy on the cheap. We are a world power. We are the one superpower on the face of this planet. We have global interests and we have global concerns.''
We cannot conduct U.S. foreign policy by closing embassies, by reducing our presence, by cutting the number of vital Foreign Service staff. Maintaining our diplomatic capability is absolutely essential if we are to succeed in preventing international crises and if we are to be fully aware of potential problems that might face us.
I am pleased that Chairman Gilman has worked successfully with our friend, the Ranking Democratic Member, Congressman Hamilton, in trying to increase the authorized levels of spending on foreign policy programs.
I profoundly regret, Mr. Chairman, that agreement has not been reached to increase the spending on foreign affairs to the levels that the President and Secretary Albright have requested. I believe that the President's request, the Secretary's request, is the minimum necessary to carry out the foreign policy of the United States.
Levels of funding in this bill are below the levels that I would like to see us approve. It is my hope that we can work to increase the overall funding levels for the conduct of our foreign policy, and I will do my utmost at the Full Committee level to achieve that goal.
The second issue I want to deal with is the question of U.N. arrearages and U.N. reform. I strongly support the efforts of President Clinton and Secretary Albright to resolve the arrearages in U.S. payments to the United Nations. There were clearly serious problems historically with the management and the operations of the United Nations. As chairman of this Subcommittee, the Subcommittee on International Security Organizations and Human Rights, in the 103d Congress, I conducted a number of hearings on U.N. reform and I have supported legislation to encourage reform at the United Nations.
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I think it is important to note, Mr. Chairman, we have made a great deal of progress. The new Secretary-General of the United Nations, my dear friend, Kofi Annan, has made some significant progress in dealing with these issues. We must continue to encourage him to make those changes in U.N. operations that will improve the efficiency of that important organization.
I should mention parenthetically, just a couple of days ago, Ambassador Bill Richardson was in my city of San Francisco, on a university campus, talking about this issue. And speaking to a very heterogeneous audience, discussing the question of paying our debt to the United Nations, he received overwhelming support. I believe the American people are prepared to pay their debt to the United Nations as the new Secretary-General introduces reforms.
We must pay what we owe that organization. It is unseemly for a superpower to be a deadbeat. By and large, the effective operation of the United Nations serves our national interest. And it is in our national interest to continue to work to shape U.N. policies that meet our national concerns. Our ability to influence the United Nations is dramatically decreased if we do not pay our fair share of the operations of that organization.
The matter of dealing with U.N. arrearages and U.N. reform are issues that, as you know, a bipartisan House and Senate task force are working to resolve. And we will not deal with those provisions in our bill today. I expect language and funding for the bipartisan agreement that will be included in the bill at some point during the legislative process.
This is an extremely important element of our work, Mr. Chairman, and I want to reaffirm my commitment to resolving this problem in supporting the Administration's efforts to resolve our debt to the United Nations.
I am not going to discuss many of the specifics of this bill. There are some provisions that, quite candidly, I would have drafted differently. And there are other provisions with which I profoundly disagree. On the whole, however, I think we have a good bill that should move forward to the Full Committee for its consideration.
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I do not plan to offer my amendments to the bill today. Many of my concerns are reflected in the Chairman's mark and the Chairman's amendment that we will consider today. Some of the issues that I am very much concerned about will be fully debated in Full Committee. And I expect that some of my colleagues will propose amendments when the bill is considered at that level.
On the whole, however, I believe this bill should move on to the next step in the legislative process. I commend you for your spirit of cooperation, for your enormous energy and for your efforts to make this bill bipartisan.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Ah, former Mr. Chairman.
Mr. LANTOS. That is all right. Next session of Congress.
[Laughter.]
Mr. SMITH. When Tom held those hearings on U.N. reform, I sat about two seats down and joined very vigorously with him in questioning the many witnesses that we had, including our former Attorney General.
The Chair lays the bill before the Subcommittee and the clerk will report the title of the bill.
The CLERK. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States in Congress assembled, Section 1, Short Title. This Act may be cited as the ''Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1998 and 1999''.
Section 2——
Mr. SMITH. Without objection, the bill will be considered as read. And the clerk will read the bill for amendment.
I am opening it for amendment at any point. Is there any objection to that?
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We are opening the bill to amendment at any point. Without objection, it is so ordered.
The Chair has an amendment at the desk and the clerk will report the amendment.
The CLERK. This is an en bloc amendment to H.R. 1253, offered by Mr. Smith of New Jersey.
Mr. SMITH. Without objection, the amendment will be considered as having been read and the Chair will recognize himself for 5 minutes in support of the amendment.
And let me just say, this package of some 19 amendments—many of them are technical amendments—have been cleared and worked with Members on the minority side. Some of these are very technical in nature. Others are suggestions, like one that we got from the Chair of the Africa Committee, Mr. Royce, asking that there be a report done on the feasibility of a Radio Free Africa and a Radio Free Iran.
And I think that the idea of a report and a study to ascertain that is a good idea.
There are other noncontroversial issues here. And those that were controversial I think have been worked out to the satisfaction of my good friend and colleague. And some of the amendments that he wanted to offer, including that which pertains to Tibetan refugees, are also included in this package of some 19 amendments.
So, would the gentleman want to be heard on the en bloc amendment?
Mr. LANTOS. I support the amendment.
Mr. SMITH. The question, then, is on the Smith amendment. As many as in favor will say, ''Aye.''
Voices. Aye.
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Mr. SMITH. As many as are opposed to the amendment will say, ''No.''
[No response.]
The ''ayes'' appear to have it.
Are there any other amendments to the bill?
Mr. LANTOS. No.
Mr. SMITH. The gentlelady from Georgia.
Ms. MCKINNEY. Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk.
Mr. SMITH. OK, the clerk will disseminate the amendment. Do all Members have a copy? No? And then the clerk will report the amendment.
Ms. MCKINNEY. Actually, I have two amendments. So, which one are you passing out first?
Mr. SMITH. It is up to you.
Ms. MCKINNEY. The long one.
Mr. SMITH. OK, the clerk will report the amendment, now that everyone has a copy.
Ms. MCKINNEY. Mr. Chairman, it is very clear that——
Mr. SMITH. If the gentlelady would withhold, just so the amendment can be reported.
Ms. MCKINNEY. All right.
The CLERK. Amendment to H.R. 1253 offered by Ms. McKinney. After Section 324, insert the following new section.
Mr. SMITH. I ask for unanimous consent that the further reading of the amendment be dispensed with. And the gentlelady is recognized for 5 minutes in support of her amendment.
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Ms. MCKINNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
It is very clear that the State Department has a severe problem with recruitment and maintaining its minority Foreign Service Officers and their promotion. The State Department is currently involved in litigation that has cost the State Department untold sums of money that I think is unnecessary. If the State Department would commit itself to the retention, recruitment and promotion of minority Foreign Service Officers, such problems would not arise.
In the senior Foreign Service Officer ranks, the trend is only minimally up since 1984. And with respect to Chiefs of Mission, the trend is down since 1984.
I personally know that the lives and careers of many African American Foreign Service Officers have been unfortunately hampered as a result of barriers to promotion. For these reasons, I would encourage the passage of this amendment.
Mr. LANTOS. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. SMITH. Mr. Lantos.
Mr. LANTOS. Mr. Chairman, I would like to support with great enthusiasm the amendment of my friend from Georgia. I have seen minority Foreign Service Officers in many posts across the globe. They contribute enormously to the effectiveness of our diplomatic service, particularly in a world which is overwhelmingly nonwhite. I think the gentlelady's amendment addresses this issue effectively and intelligently, and I ask all of my colleagues to support it.
Mr. SMITH. Do any other Members want to be heard on the amendment?
Mr. Faleomavaega.
Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Mr. Chairman, I, too, would like to offer my strongest support for the gentlelady's proposed amendment.
Mr. Chairman, this is not a new issue. In the years that I have served as a Member of this Subcommittee and a Member of this Committee for the past 8 years, it seems that every time we go through this circle of raising questions with our friends from the—not just this Administration, but other Administrations as well, in terms of exactly what concrete actions have been taken to see that there is a better sense of diversity, if you will, on the makeup of our Foreign Service system.
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And I believe that this proposed amendment will add to that. I think there are tremendous opportunities out there, but I believe that maybe our friends could work just a little harder to make sure that there is this kind of opportunity from those members of our community.
It always seems to, in my mind, unfortunately, the stereotyping that most Foreign Service Officers come from these Ivy League schools and that they never seem to come from anywhere else, other than these particular areas that the State Department has a fond affection for. And I believe that this amendment will send a real good, positive message to our friends that we need to work on this.
How many times I have raised these questions and issues every year that we have hearings on this issue, and it seems that we are going in circles. I hope that we've now come to the complete circle and, hopefully, that the gentlelady's amendment will be accepted and I fully support it. And I ask my colleagues that we support this amendment.
Mr. SMITH. It is my understanding the Administration would like to comment on the amendment.
Assistant Secretary Larkin.
Ms. LARKIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Lantos, and Congresswoman McKinney.
I just want to note that Secretary Albright strongly supports the points that you have been making and has stated publicly that she will dedicate herself to the recruitment and retention of minorities in the Foreign Service. So, we are happy to take your amendment.
I would also note that we already supply reports to the EEOC, so those are available for you now. I also would like to point out there is a provision in the bill, as it is currently configured, which are the limits on authorized strength of the Foreign Service, which has a very detrimental effect on our ability to recruit. It has several detrimental effects.
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First, we are now recruiting new Foreign Service Officers at only half the rate of attrition. So, to the extent that it limits the number of new people that we can bring in and, also, the people that we can retain. Because, under a system with caps, there is a limit on—you have to get out if you are not promoted. So, that, in another way, has a detrimental effect on the Department's and the Secretary's ability to attract and retain minority Foreign Service Officers. Thank you.
Mr. SMITH. I thank——
Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Would the Chairman yield?
Mr. SMITH. The Chair will yield.
Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. I just want, for purposes of greater clarity on the terms, at least in the wording of the proposed amendment, and I want to make sure, absolutely certain, that minorities include women, if there is any misunderstanding of that, to make sure that women are to be just as much part of this concern, as far as the makeup of our State Department.
Mr. LANTOS. It is my private judgment that Secretary Albright may be friendly to the concept of including women.
Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Well, if I yield to my good friend from California, yes, in concept, but I want to be absolutely certain that women, by law, that the women are just as much given the same opportunities.
Mr. SMITH. Are there any other Members who would like to be heard on the amendment?
[No response.]
Let me just say that, from my point of view, I think this is a good amendment. I think the information that can be garnered by this kind of reporting gives us a clearer, more accurate picture of what the makeup is of the State Department. And I think information is always more helpful, not less. And I think the gentlelady makes a contribution to the bill by offering her amendment.
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The Chair will put the question on the McKinney amendment. As many as are in favor will say, ''Aye.''
Voices. Aye.
Mr. SMITH. Those opposed say, ''No.''
[No response.]
The ''ayes'' appear to have it. The ''ayes'' do have it. And the amendment is agreed to.
Are there other amendments from Members of the Subcommittee?
Mr. HILLIARD. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment.
Mr. SMITH. The clerk will report the amendment. And if you could just withhold while the amendment is being disseminated to the membership.
Have you given a copy of the amendment to the desk?
Mr. HILLIARD. Yes.
Mr. SMITH. I would ask the gentleman, does he have multiple copies of the amendment? If not, could he hold off on that while copies are made? Apparently, there is only one. And I think Ms. McKinney has an additional amendment.
Ms. MCKINNEY. (Comments inaudible because her microphone was not turned on.)
Mr. SMITH. Only one? Good.
The CLERK. Amendment to H.R. 1253 offered by Mr. Hilliard of Alabama. In Section 101(2)(B)(ii), concerning limitations on authorizations of appropriations for salaries and expenses of the Department of State, strike clause (ii) and insert the following:
''Of the amounts authorized to be appropriated by subparagraph (A), $1,000,000 for Fiscal Year 1998 and $1,000,000 for Fiscal Year——''
Mr. SMITH. Without objection, the amendment will be considered as read.
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The gentleman is recognized for 5 minutes in support of his amendment.
Mr. HILLIARD. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, the only thing this amendment does is give the State Department additional funds to recruit minorities. And, already, there is a clause that allows for $500,000 for the recruitment of Hispanic Americans. And we have increased that amount to $1,000,000. And we have included for the training of Hispanic Americans, African Americans and Asian Pacific Americans.
Mr. LANTOS. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. SMITH. Mr. Lantos.
Mr. LANTOS. I would like to support strongly the amendment of my friend from Alabama. I think this amendment is appropriate, long overdue, and it puts some substance behind the expressions of good will along these lines. And I call on my colleagues to support the amendment.
Mr. SMITH. Are there any other additional Members who would like to be recognized in support or opposition to the amendment?
[No response.]
If not, the Chair will put the question on the amendment by Mr. Hilliard. All those in—would you like to comment?
Ms. LARKIN. Yes.
Mr. SMITH. OK. The State Department would like to comment.
Ms. LARKIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. SMITH. Assistant Secretary Larkin.
Ms. LARKIN. Might you be saying, from what Mr. Hilliard described it, that he views that this is additional money given to the Department?
Mr. HILLIARD. Absolutely.
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Ms. LARKIN. I think the way we have read it, as drafted, it is not additional money; it is an earmark. So, the money would come from elsewhere. We would be in a position to support an amendment if it were additional money, but may not, if it is coming from somewhere else.
The one portion of this bill that has been cut severely is our salaries and expenses. So, perhaps, we could redraft the amendment so that it was an additional $1,000,000 and we would be glad to support it.
Mr. SMITH. Let me ask Mr. Hilliard if the gentleman would consider withdrawing his amendment, with the idea that he could take it up in the Full Committee and we could work out any details——
Mr. HILLIARD. OK.
Mr. SMITH [continuing]. to see whether or not we could find some offset or some accommodation for the gentleman. And he will have every right, obviously, in Full Committee to——
Mr. HILLIARD. Well, I appreciate that.
Mr. SMITH [continuing]. support it.
Mr. HILLIARD. But, Mr. Chairman, what I would like to do is adopt the amendment. And, between now and the time the bill comes to the Full Committee, we will have another amendment to increase their budget by that amendment, or, we will have found some other offsetting amount.
Mr. SMITH. It is 50 of one or half a dozen of the other. Let me just say this, speaking for myself as Chairman of the Subcommittee, I will move to accept the amendment, with the caveat that we will try to find some way to work on some additional language to make sure that either there is an offset or some other kind of way of making this work out. Because we have worked for several weeks now on every comma, semicolon, crossing every ''t'' to make sure that money is available.
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Mr. Menendez has an amendment which was then added to by Mr. Faleomavaega in the manager's amendment that provided a half a million dollars for this purpose. And that is not to say that the million isn't necessary, but I think we will take a further look at it.
So, in trying to accommodate the gentleman, I will move that our side accept the amendment when we put the question, which is right now.
Is there anybody else who would like to speak to it at this point?
[No response.]
If not, the Chair will put the question on the amendment by Mr. Hilliard. As many as are in favor will say, ''Aye.''
Voices. Aye.
Mr. SMITH. As many as are opposed say, ''No.''
[No response.]
The ''ayes'' appear to have it. The ''ayes'' do have it. And the amendment is agreed to.
Are there any other amendments to the bill?
Mr. PAYNE. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. SMITH. Mr. Payne.
Mr. PAYNE. Yes, I do not have an amendment right now. As you know, we entered into some discussion prior to the meeting on the exchange programs in South Africa, where, in Section 408, there has been a recommendation that the Africa Training for Leadership and Advanced Skills and the Mandela Economic Scholarships Program be transferred from USAID to USIA.
Perhaps at this time, I might ask, Mr. Chairman, through you, if we could ask the representative from the Administration if she could give us the position of the Administration on this particular item. And we will, in the future, as we indicated, perhaps on discussion before it comes before the Full Committee.
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Mr. SMITH. Mr. Payne, I would ask Assistant Secretary Larkin if she would want to respond to that question.
Ms. LARKIN. Thank you. And I would ask Mr. Boyer, from AID, if you want to join me. My understanding is that the Administration position is we support having the program remain at AID.
Mr. PAYNE. OK. Thank you.
Ms. LARKIN. Does that answer your question?
Mr. PAYNE. That answers it, yes.
Ms. LARKIN. OK. Thank you.
Mr. SMITH. Let me just say, as I did in a conversation with Mr. Payne earlier in the day, we will work with him on that.
Mr. PAYNE. Right.
Mr. SMITH. Generally speaking, having the Mandela and ATLAS programs under USIA appears, at least on the surface, to be a very good idea, and I am sure there are some reasons why it might not be. The program, as we all know, is relatively new. But between now and markup in Full Committee, as I indicated earlier in our conversation, I would be more than happy to look at it.
All that I hope, and the intent behind it, is to make the scholarship programs, the educational programs, work more efficiently. And when it is feasible and when it is in the best interests of the program and all involved to have it under one roof, rather than multiple roofs.
So, we will work with the Chairman——
Ms. LARKIN. Right.
Mr. SMITH. And we will look forward to hearing from USIA and AID—additional response on this.
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Ms. LARKIN. Mr. Payne, we will be glad to work with you and your staff and answer any questions and work it through with you.
Mr. PAYNE. All right. Thank you. And, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. SMITH. If there are no further amendments or Members seeking recognition, the Chair would like to recognize Mr. Lantos to offer a motion.
Mr. LANTOS. Mr. Chairman, I would like to move that we approve the bill as amended.
Mr. SMITH. And report it to the Full Committee?
Mr. LANTOS. Report it to the Full Committee.
Mr. SMITH. The question is on the motion from the gentleman from California. As many as are in favor of the motion will say, ''Aye.''
Voices. Aye.
Mr. SMITH. As many as are opposed will say, ''No.''
[No response.]
The ''ayes'' appear to have it. The ''ayes'' do have it. And the amendment is agreed to.
The Subcommittee markup is adjourned. And I thank all. And we will look forward to the Full Committee markup.
[Whereupon, at 1:46 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned, subject to the call of the Chair.]
A P P E N D I X
Insert "The Official Committee record contains additional material here."
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